Syria conflict: 'Chemical attacks kill hundreds'

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Platapus

What could possibly go wrong?

Two (2) PT boats could cost you a few years and 58,000 men serving in the armed forces and some women were in that number too.

1964: North Vietnamese troops attack a pair of U.S. destroyers off the Gulf of Tonkin.

This attack was considered unprovoked:

http://www.archives.com/genealogy/ne...etnam-war.html

I have prayed (like many of us do) about this problem with military actions to be decided upon against Syria for using chemical warfare weapons on it's on people, to be decided by the US Congress in the next 8 to 9 days.

I prayed: "Lord I pray the white house will do the right thing"

The Lord answered back: "I've heard this prayer somewhere before"

Then he said, "What year is this"

I told him and he said, "I'll get back with you on this problem later"

I think he was busy with other people telling him what to do ...

If you pray (seek God's perfect will) then just pray for God's will to be done not your will

[em2nought]

Personally, I'd have already set off a nuclear blast in the Middle East so I'm not sure I can support punishing someone as yet to be determined for gassing some, er, liver eaters.

Of course, if I was in charge all along would have been no need to set off the nuclear blast in the first place.

[Feuer Frei!]

USS Nimitz rerouted.

The nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Nimitz and other ships in its strike group are heading west toward the Red Sea in case they’re needed to support a U.S. attack on Syria, defense officials told Reuters Sunday

SOURCE

Sep. 1, 2013 9:49pm



(Credit: AP)

[Ducimus]

What I'm having trouble with, is this Obama's whole rational of "We must step up because Chemical weapons were used! OMG Crimes against humanity!" and that line of BS.

Ok, if Crimes against humanity and chemical weapons being used is an automatic press of the "Go! Button", then why the hell hasn't he taken a similar stance on say.. North Korea. They have freaking concentration camps / gulags, people starving, ex girlfriends being lined up and shot. I'll bet as crimes against humanity go, the DPRK is much higher up on the totem pole.

So what makes Syria so damn special then? Different theater, different conditions i can see being the official explanation. However, crimes against humanity is a boolean thing. There is, or there isn't. So I'm just not buying it. Face it, bottom line, there is no oil, or any ties to oil in north korea. I have no hesitation in calling Obama the "Liar-n-Chief" because that is what he is.

I also agree with what others have said. Obama waiting for congress ( even though he technically doesn't have to) is a VERY sly move. In his speech he says, "this is not time for politics as usual" or words to that effect, which i thought was pretty sad, because it's pretty obvious that's exactly what it is.

[u crank]

It will not be an easy task.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101001802

In a letter to the Armed Services Committee of the Senate on the use of military force in Syria on July 19, General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, gives his independent evaluation on the use of military force in Syria.

The option of controlling chemical weapons in Syria would be done, Dempsey explained, by destroying "portions of Syria's massive stockpile, interdicting its movement and delivery, or by seizing and securing program components." To achieve that, the minimum requirement would necessitate a no-fly zone "as well as air and missile strikes involving hundreds of aircraft, ships, submarines, and other enablers."

But that's not all. Dempsey added that "thousands of special operations forces and other ground forces would be needed to assault and secure critical sites." A price tag was also included: An average cost of more than one billion dollars a month.

Even more disturbing,

Controlling chemical weapons in Syria means just that Dempsey was clear about the limited ability to fully control Syria's "storage and delivery systems", which could prove to be a boon for extremists.

And finally.

In his speech, Obama reiterated there were no plans to send in troops, acknowledging that Americans were "weary of war" after Afghanistan and Iraq.

By contrast, Dempsey had warned of spiraling commitments. "Once we take action, we should be prepared for what comes next. Deeper involvement is hard to avoid."

Ok, if Crimes against humanity and chemical weapons being used is an automatic press of the "Go! Button", then why the hell hasn't he taken a similar stance on say.. North Korea. They have freaking concentration camps / gulags, people starving, ex girlfriends being lined up and shot. I'll bet as crimes against humanity go, the DPRK is much higher up on the totem pole.

Good point, though I think there was an example where they tried in N. Korea and found themselves getting a bit too much of a battering so they called a time out for a few decades.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by u crank

It will not be an easy task.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101001802

In a letter to the Armed Services Committee of the Senate on the use of military force in Syria on July 19, General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, gives his independent evaluation on the use of military force in Syria.



Even more disturbing,



And finally.

Pair that with BO's address. Is this amateur hour in the white house or what?

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Pair that with BO's address. Is this amateur hour in the white house or what?

Well I can think of three possibilities. There are probably more.

1. The White House is not listening to their top military advisor.
2. They are, but have their own agenda.
3. Dempsey has changed his views in less than 2 months.

I'll take door number 2 Monty.

[Tchocky]

The delay waiting for Congress to debate gives time for a diplomatic solution to be hammered out at the G20. I wonder how things will go in st Petersburg.

Oh, and the idea that this is all about oil is silly.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Pair that with BO's address. Is this amateur hour in the white house or what?

Amateur hour took place already a very long time ago. It was when the amateur-in-chief made his stupid comment on red lines.

Bluffing is extremely overestimated, as every poker player knows. In poker, you rely heavily on probability and math. And if you cannot do the math or think you can outbluff unfavorable probabilities, you may win occasionally, but by the end of your career you will have lost far more often than you gained something. And they are an unwise option if you have a high risk to be called over them but lack the substance or will to win the calling. It's like with Backgammon. You may win a single match by chance, but you lose the complete challenge. The results accumulate against you.

Obama is a blender and sweet-talker. And he has played that card too often. That's why so many things in his presidency are failures - more things than is inevitable for any president due to practical constraints and problem's self-dynamics.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I wonder how things will go in st Petersburg.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Seriously. My understanding is that in the view of Iran/Russia, we are pretty much a joke because our government has lost any resemblance of credibility. BO is in way over his head, we know it and they know it.

[Tchocky]

Hardly. Economic sanctions have severely weakened the Iranian economy, perhaps to the extent of affecting the recent election. These sanctions would not be in place without the US pushing.

Not without credibility. Iran talks a tough line about the US, but that is for domestic consumption.

As for Russia it's hard to say. The Snowden mess has soured relations sure, but even there Putin is tired of the standoff.

[Ducimus]

I don't know. Something about 16 trillion in debt, and hitting our debt ceiling again next month makes me seriously doubt that we can afford another conflict. In the short term, yeah they'll run up the governmental credit card again, but it won't take long for collections to start calling in the aftermath.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Seriously. My understanding is that in the view of Iran/Russia, we are pretty much a joke because our government has lost any resemblance of credibility. BO is in way over his head, we know it and they know it.

It seems that you got what you want.
American role in ME is coming to an end...at least in this administration.
Question is if this will pay off in long run.