Please, help me to choose top 11 military units for Cold War

MaxRiga · 07-01-13, 04:54 PM

Hello guys

I'm game developer. Right now I'm working on expansion for my Cold War game. I'm not sure I can provide any links here. I guess moderators can think I'm a spammer and can ban me if I do it, lol.

Any way, in my expansion I will be adding top 11 military units for USA and USSR for the period of time from 1950 to 2000. Yeah, I know the USSR felt apart in 1991 but you know, it's still the game without being too historically accurate

I love arms but I can't call my self an expert in it. Could you please help me to choose top 11 units for USA and USSR (RUS) for the period of time from 1950 to 2000? I need 11 units in Air, Naval and land positions. Let say, I'd call nr1 on air for USSR mig15 and SabreF86 for USA and nr11 PAK-FA for USSR and F22 for USA. Since there is limit on positions ( just 11 ) I need only bright and most notable units.

If you feel you want to try and it's fun for you, please, write the whole line in any army,navy,ground you feel you are the best.

THANK YOU!

What do we have for now is AIR only so far ( feel free to advise something else for the line ) -

USSR: MiG-15 -> Il-28 -> MiG-21 -> Tu-95 -> MiG-23 -> Su-24 -> MI24 -> Su-27 -> MiG-29 -> Tu-160 -> PAK FA
USA: F-86 -> F-104 -> B-52 -> AH1 -> F-4 -> F-111 -> F-16 -> B-2 -> F-15E -> AH64 -> F-22

P.S. SSBN's and Nuclear bombers are not counted. I need only attacking units for my expansion.

I'm looking forward for your help. I'm sure we will not have problems with NAVY for sure, ehh?

Platapus · 07-01-13, 06:04 PM

Do you only want combat units or are you looking for intel units?

August · 07-01-13, 06:15 PM

You need to supply more parameters because 1950 to Y2K covers an enormous range of technical and tactical advancement. A spread so great that "best" depends on when it was fielded. For example no matter how good the MiG15 was in it's day it's not going to survive in combat against an F22 or even an F15. It'd be blown out of the sky before it even knew the other aircraft was there.

Also we need more direction in the scale of the units you're talking about. Speaking about land forces here (but this includes naval units generally as well), we deploy armor, artillery and infantry as a combined arms unit. Smaller units such as Rangers or Special Forces aren't combined arms units but an SF team or even Ranger battalion no matter how elite cannot go toe to toe with an entire Armored division and win. In fact an entire 1950's Armored Corps armed with Pershings and M1's could not hope to beat an 1978 Armored division armed with M60's and M16's.

MaxRiga · 07-01-13, 07:32 PM

I need only combat units. Transport planes, Specnaz or European arms can't be counted.

August · 07-01-13, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxRiga

I need only combat units. Transport planes, Specnaz or European arms can't be counted.

A "unit" is a group of people from about 35 up to thousands. Do you mean a single piece of equipment like a tank such as the M60A2 Patton tank or a Russian T-72?

If so then again that pretty much ensures only the latest models would be considered "best" to have in game terms.

MaxRiga · 07-01-13, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Do you mean a single piece of equipment like a tank such as the M60A2 Patton tank or a Russian T-72?

yes, absolutely.

Quote:

If so then again that pretty much ensures only the latest models would be considered "best" to have in game terms.

well, in 1950 abram wasn't developed, right?

This is the history line, take a look on my AIR example -

USSR: MiG-15 -> Il-28 -> MiG-21 -> Tu-95 -> MiG-23 -> Su-24 -> MI24 -> Su-27 -> MiG-29 -> Tu-160 -> PAK FA

USA: F-86 -> F-104 -> B-52 -> AH1 -> F-4 -> F-111 -> F-16 -> B-2 -> F-15E -> AH64 -> F-22

August · 07-01-13, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxRiga

yes, absolutely.

well, in 1950 abram wasn't developed, right?

This is the history line, take a look on my AIR example -

USSR: MiG-15 -> Il-28 -> MiG-21 -> Tu-95 -> MiG-23 -> Su-24 -> MI24 -> Su-27 -> MiG-29 -> Tu-160 -> PAK FA

USA: F-86 -> F-104 -> B-52 -> AH1 -> F-4 -> F-111 -> F-16 -> B-2 -> F-15E -> AH64 -> F-22

Oh I see what you mean.

Well for American tanks I'd go:

M4 Sherman --> M26 Pershing --> M48 Patton --> M60 "Improved Patton" --> M1 Abrams

One other suggestion i'd make is to separate bombers, fighters and attack helos. These are totally different three aircraft classes.

MaxRiga · 07-01-13, 08:43 PM

Quote:

M4 Sherman --> M26 Pershing --> M48 Patton --> M60 "Improved Patton" --> M1 Abrams

yeah, you've got it right! The only think I need to choose 11 best armors in general, not tanks. I'd add to the list - Bradley, Paladin artillery and Patriot AA

Or, may be, you think there are other units should be on the list. The more important ones on your choice?

August · 07-01-13, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxRiga

yeah, you've got it right! The only think I need to choose 11 best armors in general, not tanks. I'd add to the list - Bradley, Paladin artillery and Patriot AA

You really can't compare those vehicles with tanks. They are used for totally different missions.

For example, which is better? An F1 Formula race car or a Willys Jeep? Depends on what the road looks like right? On a muddy dirt trail the F1 is useless, on the open road it rules. See what I mean?

Quote:

Or, may be, you think there are other units should be on the list. The more important ones on your choice?

That list is all the main battle tanks in the US Army inventory during the years you specify, however if you need 11 tanks in the list you could introduce some variants such as:

M60 --> M60A1 --> M60A3 --> M1 --> M1A1 and so forth.

TarJak · 07-01-13, 09:34 PM

why just US tanks? What about the EU? Leopard, Chieftain, Challenger etc? All worthy of note.

CaptainHaplo · 07-01-13, 10:46 PM

Air wise I would drop the B2.

If your looking for a total of 11 combat units from that timeframe - use 2 from each "side" (Nato/Warsaw) on both land, air and sea.

That will give you 12 - and then you eliminate the least impactful one of them all

Nato Air - Early period would either be the GR7 or Mirage III.
Late would be the F/A 18 E/F or the F-15 E

Warsaw Air - Early period has to be the Mig21 Fishbed.
Late period would be a tossup - Mig 29/Su-27/Su-35

Nato Land - Early would be either the M60 Patton or the M113.
Late would be the Challenger II (if the timeline was a little longer - the Merkava would take it)

Warsaw Land - Early is the T-64 without question.
Late should be the BRT-80/90 (the T is outside the date range, sadly)

Nato Sea - Early - CVN-65. 'Nuff said
Late - 688 / 688I

Warsaw Sea - Early - Either the Project 627 (November) or the Kirov
Late - Has to be the Akula

Least "impactful" would be the Warsaw Pact late air.... I would drop that to get to 11 total.
I can give specifics on why each one makes the cut. If your looking for 11 from "Each" category, then its another question entirely.

Oberon · 07-01-13, 10:59 PM

MaxRiga...well well well, been a while since I've seen that name around. IIRC you did some work on Civ IV units, as well as Operation Flashpoint mods, if I recall correctly.

In regards to ground, I can't disagree with August for his US picks, so I'll put some Russkie stuff out:

Katyusha ---> T-34 ---> T-55 ---> BM-21 ---> T-62 ---> BMP-1 ---> T-64 ---> T-72 ---> BMP-2 ---> T-80 ---> T-90

A mixture of tanks, IFVs and artillery there.

Navy wise:

USSR:
Zulu SSK ---> Riga Frigate ---> November SSN ---> Kashin Destroyer ---> Echo II SSGN ---> Kiev Carrier ---> Alfa SSN ---> Sovremennyy Destroyer ---> Admiral Kuznetov Carrier ---> Akula SSN ---> Oscar II SSGN
USA:
Tench (Guppy upgrade) SSK ---> Forrestral Carrier ---> Gearing Destroyer ---> Skipjack SSN ---> Kitty Hawk Carrier ---> Knox class Frigate ---> Los Angeles SSN ---> Nimitz Carrier ---> Oliver Hazard Perry Frigate ---> Triconderoga AEGIS cruiser ---> Seawolf SSN

Jimbuna · 07-02-13, 09:23 AM

NATO /UK air assets (not in any particular order):

Canberra, Buccaneer, Hunter, Jaguar, Harrier, Tornado, Phantom, Lightning.

nikimcbee · 07-02-13, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

MaxRiga...well well well, been a while since I've seen that name around. IIRC you did some work on Civ IV units, as well as Operation Flashpoint mods, if I recall correctly.

In regards to ground, I can't disagree with August for his US picks, so I'll put some Russkie stuff out:

Katyusha ---> T-34 ---> T-55 ---> BM-21 ---> T-62 ---> BMP-1 ---> T-64 ---> T-72 ---> BMP-2 ---> T-80 ---> T-90

A mixture of tanks, IFVs and artillery there.

Navy wise:

USSR:
Zulu SSK ---> Riga Frigate ---> November SSN ---> Kashin Destroyer ---> Echo II SSGN ---> Kiev Carrier ---> Alfa SSN ---> Sovremennyy Destroyer ---> Admiral Kuznetov Carrier ---> Akula SSN ---> Oscar II SSGN
USA:
Tench (Guppy upgrade) SSK ---> Forrestral Carrier ---> Gearing Destroyer ---> Skipjack SSN ---> Kitty Hawk Carrier ---> Knox class Frigate ---> Los Angeles SSN ---> Nimitz Carrier ---> Oliver Hazard Perry Frigate ---> Triconderoga AEGIS cruiser ---> Seawolf SSN

For Russian subs, add to the list Victor I, Foxtrot and Alfa (Lira) classes.

Herr-Berbunch · 07-02-13, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxRiga

I need only combat units. Transport planes, Specnaz or European arms can't be counted.

I don't know why, because Europe was a major factor too, but it's his request not mine.

07-01-13, 04:54 PM	#1
MaxRiga Seaman Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 38 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Please, help me to choose top 11 military units for Cold War Hello guys I'm game developer. Right now I'm working on expansion for my Cold War game. I'm not sure I can provide any links here. I guess moderators can think I'm a spammer and can ban me if I do it, lol. Any way, in my expansion I will be adding top 11 military units for USA and USSR for the period of time from 1950 to 2000. Yeah, I know the USSR felt apart in 1991 but you know, it's still the game without being too historically accurate I love arms but I can't call my self an expert in it. Could you please help me to choose top 11 units for USA and USSR (RUS) for the period of time from 1950 to 2000? I need 11 units in Air, Naval and land positions. Let say, I'd call nr1 on air for USSR mig15 and SabreF86 for USA and nr11 PAK-FA for USSR and F22 for USA. Since there is limit on positions ( just 11 ) I need only bright and most notable units. If you feel you want to try and it's fun for you, please, write the whole line in any army,navy,ground you feel you are the best. THANK YOU! What do we have for now is AIR only so far ( feel free to advise something else for the line ) - USSR: MiG-15 -> Il-28 -> MiG-21 -> Tu-95 -> MiG-23 -> Su-24 -> MI24 -> Su-27 -> MiG-29 -> Tu-160 -> PAK FA USA: F-86 -> F-104 -> B-52 -> AH1 -> F-4 -> F-111 -> F-16 -> B-2 -> F-15E -> AH64 -> F-22 P.S. SSBN's and Nuclear bombers are not counted. I need only attacking units for my expansion. I'm looking forward for your help. I'm sure we will not have problems with NAVY for sure, ehh? __________________ THE COLD WAR ERA PC GAME

07-01-13, 06:04 PM	#2
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,362 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Do you only want combat units or are you looking for intel units? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

07-01-13, 06:15 PM	#3
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	You need to supply more parameters because 1950 to Y2K covers an enormous range of technical and tactical advancement. A spread so great that "best" depends on when it was fielded. For example no matter how good the MiG15 was in it's day it's not going to survive in combat against an F22 or even an F15. It'd be blown out of the sky before it even knew the other aircraft was there. Also we need more direction in the scale of the units you're talking about. Speaking about land forces here (but this includes naval units generally as well), we deploy armor, artillery and infantry as a combined arms unit. Smaller units such as Rangers or Special Forces aren't combined arms units but an SF team or even Ranger battalion no matter how elite cannot go toe to toe with an entire Armored division and win. In fact an entire 1950's Armored Corps armed with Pershings and M1's could not hope to beat an 1978 Armored division armed with M60's and M16's. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

07-01-13, 07:32 PM	#4
MaxRiga Seaman Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 38 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I need only combat units. Transport planes, Specnaz or European arms can't be counted. __________________ THE COLD WAR ERA PC GAME

07-01-13, 10:46 PM	#11
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Air wise I would drop the B2. If your looking for a total of 11 combat units from that timeframe - use 2 from each "side" (Nato/Warsaw) on both land, air and sea. That will give you 12 - and then you eliminate the least impactful one of them all Nato Air - Early period would either be the GR7 or Mirage III. Late would be the F/A 18 E/F or the F-15 E Warsaw Air - Early period has to be the Mig21 Fishbed. Late period would be a tossup - Mig 29/Su-27/Su-35 Nato Land - Early would be either the M60 Patton or the M113. Late would be the Challenger II (if the timeline was a little longer - the Merkava would take it) Warsaw Land - Early is the T-64 without question. Late should be the BRT-80/90 (the T is outside the date range, sadly) Nato Sea - Early - CVN-65. 'Nuff said Late - 688 / 688I Warsaw Sea - Early - Either the Project 627 (November) or the Kirov Late - Has to be the Akula Least "impactful" would be the Warsaw Pact late air.... I would drop that to get to 11 total. I can give specifics on why each one makes the cut. If your looking for 11 from "Each" category, then its another question entirely. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

07-01-13, 09:34 PM	#10
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	why just US tanks? What about the EU? Leopard, Chieftain, Challenger etc? All worthy of note.

07-01-13, 10:59 PM	#12
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	MaxRiga...well well well, been a while since I've seen that name around. IIRC you did some work on Civ IV units, as well as Operation Flashpoint mods, if I recall correctly. In regards to ground, I can't disagree with August for his US picks, so I'll put some Russkie stuff out: Katyusha ---> T-34 ---> T-55 ---> BM-21 ---> T-62 ---> BMP-1 ---> T-64 ---> T-72 ---> BMP-2 ---> T-80 ---> T-90 A mixture of tanks, IFVs and artillery there. Navy wise: USSR: Zulu SSK ---> Riga Frigate ---> November SSN ---> Kashin Destroyer ---> Echo II SSGN ---> Kiev Carrier ---> Alfa SSN ---> Sovremennyy Destroyer ---> Admiral Kuznetov Carrier ---> Akula SSN ---> Oscar II SSGN USA: Tench (Guppy upgrade) SSK ---> Forrestral Carrier ---> Gearing Destroyer ---> Skipjack SSN ---> Kitty Hawk Carrier ---> Knox class Frigate ---> Los Angeles SSN ---> Nimitz Carrier ---> Oliver Hazard Perry Frigate ---> Triconderoga AEGIS cruiser ---> Seawolf SSN

07-02-13, 09:23 AM	#13
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,525 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	NATO /UK air assets (not in any particular order): Canberra, Buccaneer, Hunter, Jaguar, Harrier, Tornado, Phantom, Lightning. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!