Sir Winston Churchill to feature on new banknote

[BossMark]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Why not Thatcher ?

What? you want me to burn every new fiver I got

Originally Posted by vienna

Didn't I mention the stockpile of weapons I'll have also? Yes, the only way you'l get those beans is out of my cold, dead hands!!...

<O>

Unless of course I've cornered the can-opener market.

[vienna]

Unless of course I've cornered the can-opener market.

Er, um,... say, you want to, maybe, negotiate?...

<O>

The only 'pathetic rhetoric' here is yours, Skybird. You babble on endlessly (in multiple threads, even when they are on other topics entirely) about fiat money, and about how gold is somehow a 'real' measure of value, and then post a thread claiming that the price is being manipulated. Both cannot be true.

Get used to it Andy, the stronger Skybird holds an opinion on something the more likely it is that it will directly contradicted by Skybird holding a strong opinion on something.
Its almost like every time he reads something new it becomes his new ultimate truth.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by BossMark

What? you want me to burn every new fiver I got

Why not its worthless.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by myself

Why not Thatcher ?

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Because of the negative opinions of a significant proportion of the British population, for a start.

I hope i will not have to to explain i make a joke everytime i try to make one

[soopaman2]

I'll trade you a Washington and Lincoln for one. Fair trade, one Hero for two!

Good for you guys across the pond, years too late, but good.

That cigar chomping (expletive) wasn't so bad. ( I always giggle at that scene in Das Boot, couldn't help myself)

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by STEED

Why not its worthless.

I'll have all your fivers then.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by vienna

There's one big flaw about the 'value' of gold: if there were a catastrophe and I had the only food stock in the entire area, how much do you think your gold is worth? How much gold would you pay me for a can of bean?...

<O>

Money is a normal commodity of the market, it gets traded and valued the same way like any other item that gets traded between interested people. Items used for money become that because they have a deep market penetration, that means they are available in sufficient quantity to serve in the function of a currency. Like the value of any good or item for sale gets determined by its relative value to other items, it is the same way with a functioning currency. A refrigerator may be worth ten pairs of shoes, for example. A pair of shoes may be worth 5 gold coins. That means if you do not want to carry your refrigerator to a deal in order to buy ten pairs of shoes for the coming 20 years, it might be more clever you trade your refrigerator for 50 gold coins, spend 5 on one pair of shoes, and keep the remaining 45 coins. The value of all three items - refrigerator, shoes, gold coins of a certain weight (in gold content) is negotiated by sellers and buyers on the market. The value of the currency thus is also traded by sellers and buyers on the market.

But that only is because a gold coin is being agreed on by sellers and buyers to have a certain amount of value by itself. And that is what differs this real value money from FIAT money we have today. FIAT money is not negotiated in its a value by the markets, it also is no value in itself, it is no trading item in itslef, no trading good (debts have been made a trading good instead, and a trading good of even more than just one degree of complexity...).

Where you have a gold standards (or silver standard) backing a currency, a banknote just is a storage check. You can go to a bank and get real gold for it. But there are no more storage checks in circulation thna there is real valuable items that the represent. If you have four suitcases stored, you get four checks. Not five or six or seven - four. And these four are the only ones you can trade with, which serves as proxies for carrying around the real precious metal (gold bars are heavy...).

But with FIAt money, banknotes are debt bonds, and they refer to items being owed that are non-existent. That is an invention by states who wanted to spend more money than they had in real wealth as represented in their gold treasury. They wnated to form "money" from, nothing, and so they abandoned the gold stnadrad, thinking it is sufficient to just take a leaf of paper, print "money" and a number on it, and then you are a rich man. But it isn'T. The fallacy only functions a slong as nobody starts to worry, and wnats the bank to give him in real value wehat his papers seem to indicate his his: but he only has a debt bond, and the value owed does not exist in real asset, or better, only a minor amount of circulating debt bonds(=banknotes) are covered by real values and assets). When people realise that, they will storm the bakl and to be one of the happy few first getting something for their paper - and the rest after them will get nothing. When that gets understood, that will be the beginning of the end of the financial system as we know it today. Collapse will be the inevitable result. Total, complete collapse. It's all a snowball system only, and the final riot will bcome the nastier the more money gets headlessly printed by the ECB and the Fed and all the other criminal irresponsible smartheads with their shiny university degrees and unscrupulous ambitions for power.

In your scenario, doomsday all over the world, maybe gold will not be worth much anymore. But I promise you one thing - for gold you will be able to trade some food or a safe passage somewhere for much longer time, then with state bonds banknotes or cheap steel coins representing FIAT money only.

So, in your doomsday scenario, the gold standard money is an object of trade, an item that gets traded on and by the market, and the market decides (request and availability) whether one gold coin is worth more, equal or less than a leaf of bread.

FIAt money is worth nothing in that same scenario, never.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Alcohol, cigarettes and coffee would be good bargaining tools in the immediate aftermath, following that, food, water, weapons, people.

Yes - the market situation, may it be war, may it be in prison, as well as the availability of possible currency items (cigarettes) determines the value, the amount of interest in sellers and buyers fgor a given item, good or product. In prison, cigarettes indeed get traded like coins, and can go through many hands before finally getting smoked by somebody. It doe snot matter whether it is cigarettes, seashells, grams of salt or tobacco, or gold coins. If a prisoner sees any value in something that others do not see value in, he will be willing to trade for it. Either he wants it himself, or he wants to store some value for future use or investment, or hoping for a bigger profit later than what he could make in profit in the present. Historically seen , gold is a great trading item for most scenarios imaginable. Different to seashells, bread and coats, it also got prohibited by governments to be owed by private people time and again.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

The only 'pathetic rhetoric' here is yours, Skybird. You babble on endlessly (in multiple threads, even when they are on other topics entirely) about fiat money, and about how gold is somehow a 'real' measure of value, and then post a thread claiming that the price is being manipulated. Both cannot be true.

Of course it can, else the term "criminal" would not have any meaning.

That the market for gold prices currently is being manipulated heavily, because governments and central banks have a high interest in doing so to hide their own desastrous policies, IS criminal behaviour - it borders high treason. The article you referred to (the translation that I linked) , hints at governments and central banks indeed being in deep conspiracy in order to force private gold owner to trade their gold for (taxable) FIAT debts bonds. In Europe they now start to talk about increasing pressure on private savings to be put back on bank accounts - where the state can easier grab its hands for them. I am pretty sure that before my life ends I will have witnessed a new gold prohibition in the EU, like there has been so many in history. I assume it will also come to the US again.

Rest assured, there will be no prohibition on your precious FIAT money banknotes, only a constant devaluing by printing frenzies, and the consequences. They want you to accept them for your gold. Obviously they consider your gold more valuable than their FIAT money.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I'll have all your fivers then.

On the way..

Oberon
Some where in Suffolk
No idea of post code
England, UK

With luck your get them in 3 to 4 days or any time in the next 50 years.

[vienna]

In your scenario, doomsday all over the world, maybe gold will not be worth much anymore. But I promise you one thing - for gold you will be able to trade some food or a safe passage somewhere for much longer time, then with state bonds banknotes or cheap steel coins representing FIAT money only.

Okay, we're both at the dock looking for safe passage and there's only one berth. The guy with the boat is real hungry himself and probably is looking for something he can use to barter with later. You've got a case of gold; I'ne got a few spare cans of food. Who do you think is getting that berth?...

<O>

[Skybird]

Depends on the reölative value of gold on the local black market, the availability of food in general, and the assessment of the guy whether he can hold out a bit longer and get a thiosuand times as much food later on with my gold, if he hungers halöf a day longer only instead of taking your basket of food.

Can't you get the logic? It makes no sense to question what I said about thwe two kinds of money by just referring to a single, constructed scenario trying to make that a - nonwokring - proof for the invalidity of my descpriptions. The market and the way it changes the values of items all the time is much more than just one local scenarios. It is the interaction resulting from ever changing conditions between sellers and buyers.

Even if the sailor is short of starving, what I say remaisn to be true: that the request and availability defines the value of goods and commodities and that his interest for food over gold decides whether he accepts my basket of gold or your basket of foods. It is dynamic value-finding, always. Non-static like you seem to base on.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by STEED

On the way..

Oberon
Some where in Suffolk
No idea of post code
England, UK

With luck your get them in 3 to 4 days or any time in the next 50 years.

Knowing the mail it'll probably get "lost" in a sorting office somewhere in Ipswich