The WIA numbers that the military tries to hide

[Skybird]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...829390,00.html

The way traumatised soldiers get excluded from statistics on own wounded soldiers, always has made me very. That was the case in discussion we had on the board in 2003 and 2004, and it is still the same today. DMMC - damn male macho cult. I had my confrontation with what violence-induced traumatisation can mean to a human, for some months I was engaged long time ago with a project caring for torture victims from the Balkans, and did a lot of additional learning search back then, which also meant PTS syndrome caused by war. The US military, and others, may have increased efforts to tackle PTS and combat fatigue, but to really tackle it, it needs wider, more public recognition and a massive change to this damn male macho cult dominating the military. In principle we need a change of military culture itself.

To leave behind those who one has sent into war, is a complete moral failure, and is despicable.

That we tell soldiers lies and opush false ideals based on forged images of relaities in order to motivate them,, doe snot help either. I prefer to prepare them for what they are up to by telling them straight and frankly what they are up for, and what it is about. The BS-talking about Afghanistan has abused the idealism and naivety of so many young people who went there with the best intentions indeed - it makes me sick. It is abuse indeed, abuse of the own soldiers. Politicians should hang for that.

[Catfish]

Also this, in former times they used to call it shell shock, bluntly, now it's post-traumatic depression.
Just does not get better by using Orwell's doublespeak:
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/36/36804/1.html
Medicaments or drugs, dexedrine is still being used to keep soldiers awake

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Also this, in former times they used to call it shell shock, bluntly, now it's post-traumatic depression.

I believe it's called post traumatic stress disorder.

[August]

This thread = troll bait.

[Oberon]

This is a very touchy subject and this thread will most likely derail very quickly.

Furthermore, since I have not been in combat, nor witnessed it outside of a television or computer screen I am not particularly qualified to discuss this outside of speculation, which due to the very nature of this subject, is not possible to do with any degree of accuracy.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I believe it's called post traumatic stress disorder.

Most commonly used term in the UK.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

This thread = troll bait.

Don't worry, nobody will bite you here.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Don't worry, nobody will bite you here.

No but a bunch of people who have never served themselves opining on what the attitudes of those who do serve should be isn't all that interesting either.

That "damn male macho cult" is what wins wars and always has.

[Catfish]

The article just says that the soldier of today stays longer in the military and active action than ever before, and that this has consequences.
But you are right, to even touch this is certainly most unpopular in a macho cult

[soopaman2]

Not so much trollbait.

But a good diving board for discussion.

The recent wars of the elite touched me personally. I have a cousin I do not know anymore, who never comes out his house except for food.

He was commited (short term, hes not super freaking crazy) after I told his father what he told me with tears coming out his eyes.

I am afraid I can't turn it off. He used to be the guy who pulled me off of people as teenagers, now I am afraid to drink with him.

4 tours, the 4th one was forced after he was the only survivor of a vehicle hit by an IED. He wasn't physically injured enough to come home, despite him breaking down when being asked about it. He was shuttled right back out there.

You see, he was driving (he admits he saw a lump in the road, and that is what kills him), and blames himself. No talking to will ever get it out his head. He is a free man today, but still lives with his experiences.

Go on call him weak. But you did not know him.

This will be even more of a problem in days to come as our boys come home. Discounting what they (edit: us) did to normal people in the name of oil and bragging rights will cripple the entire generation.


So maybe you understand my bitterness towards the MIC at times, and why this is not trollbait, but something we should discuss, if we want to continue to have long protracted wars that last a decade plus.

[RickC Sniper]

Originally Posted by Skybird

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...829390,00.html

The US military, and others, may have increased efforts to tackle PTS and combat fatigue, but to really tackle it, it needs wider, more public recognition and a massive change to this damn male macho cult dominating the military. In principle we need a change of military culture itself.

Nothing wrong with treating illnesses. But I was wondering just what kind of military culture they have in mind. If it is the culture itself that creates an effective war machine, how do you change it yet still be effective at war?

Perhaps the politicians would like soldiers to be as effective at their trade as politicians are at theirs.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

No but a bunch of people who have never served themselves opining on what the attitudes of those who do serve should be isn't all that interesting either.

That "damn male macho cult" is what wins wars and always has.

Thanks for perfectly illustrating the point I made. Saved me a lot of time.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by August

This thread = troll bait.

everyone knows that it was the oil wells' fault.

[mookiemookie]

On a related note, I found this photo essay of Scott Ostrom to be pretty powerful stuff.

After serving four years as a reconnaissance man and deploying twice to Iraq, Brian Scott Ostrom, 27, returned home to the U.S. with a severe case of post-traumatic stress disorder. “The most important part of my life already happened. The most devastating. The chance to come home in a box. Nothing is ever going to compare to what I’ve done, so I’m struggling to be at peace with that,”

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured...t-ostrom/5172/

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Thanks for perfectly illustrating the point I made. Saved me a lot of time.

So your point was that you don't really know what you're talking about? Ok...