A discussion On Food stamps:

[Respenus]

The following idea is similar to food stamps, or any type of stamps, in purpose, for what about a rationing book (which wouldn't be a bad idea in general, but let's try to limit the outcry)? This way you would be given money to spend rather freely and on necessities, without the necessary control of what type of food stuff stamps are being used for. The first major problem I see with this idea, is that it would be difficult, if not impossible, to equip only a certain number of people with the cards and others not and how stores would control it. Perhaps people with rationing cards would get basic goods at a discount price?

[soopaman2]

My old lady is in the business as well. She is an assistant manager at a very large supermarket company here.

One of my favorite stories is the ones who wait at the store for the stroke of midnight (when they were 24/7 in operation, as they are not anymore), (sometimes with their dealers accompanying, or a cab waiting outside) to buy a pack of gum, get 100$ back (the limit), then repeat until the cash (welfare portion, not stamps) is ran out. So much for paying bills, this dance repeated itself 2 days later on the 3rd of the month as well.

The store used to bring in security as most would usually stop by the HABA (health and beauty aids, like razors, and medicine) to shoplift razors and expensive medicine to return later (the store has a no reciept police. aka give them the pickle)

It is disgusting. We (working class) have to budget, and go without sometimes to pay our obligations, while the fraud is rampant.

This takes away from the unfortionate souls who really need stamps and welfare. And makes the genuine down on their luck people look bad.

And when the right kills these programs due to these abusers, their will be more good people suffering than fraudsters.

We should require drug tests for all government benefits. All adults being claimed, mother and father (if there is a father).

Community service, at least 15 hours a week for the township, which can cut service costs for the community. These people would actually be forced to be helpful to society, rather than just taking.

Also some of these poor impoverished people show up in Lexus', Benzes, with rims and 20 inch wheels. As well as huge speakers, and a radio system that makes my gaming rig look like an Atari 2600.

That includes unemployment too.

I sound so conservative...

I am still lefty, but abuse is abuse.
This program is helpful, but the costs could be trimmed with actual regulating. You should want to help yourself, first. And prove it.

I am sick of paying taxes, so miss nubian queen, and trailor park Royalty can drive around in a benz and not work.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Respenus

The following idea is similar to food stamps, or any type of stamps, in purpose, for what about a rationing book (which wouldn't be a bad idea in general, but let's try to limit the outcry)? This way you would be given money to spend rather freely and on necessities, without the necessary control of what type of food stuff stamps are being used for. The first major problem I see with this idea, is that it would be difficult, if not impossible, to equip only a certain number of people with the cards and others not and how stores would control it. Perhaps people with rationing cards would get basic goods at a discount price?

The priority for me is to make sure that other people'S moeny gets not wasted on luxury goods and luxurious details in ways of life. The aid given thereforew should be linkied as close as possible to the purposes it is meant for: essential food to prevent hunger and disease, shelter, education options and school material for children in a household. People should not make a living by such aid, nor should they sack money for buying cigarettes, the latest MP3 player, filet steaks, and Boss Bottled, expensive style.

I see no advantage in your idea, therefore. I even see it as inferior to a stamping system. I would prefer to supply only a very very small ammount of cash, and give instead purpose-bound values: stamps, in other words.

Oh, and I think there should be a law that makes stamps non-tradable, so that they cannot be exchanged/sold for money. They should be personalised in any way, like a monthly pass for the Bus, for example. Same ID on stamps and in a receiver pass - by that you prevent trading stamps. Irresponsible parents thus cannot trade the stamps for school material for their kids for money - money that then goes into buying alcohol or cigarettes. What is meant to help the kids, should remain theirs, beyond doubt. A black market trading for stamps should be battled against from beginning on.

It must not be a big bureaucratic effort, I think. In these days, with chip cards and all that digiatl data processing capacity, so much is possible so easily and so quickly, assuming the job of establishing such a system is not left to lobbyists or political dilettants.

---

On forcing wellgfare reciever to work in communal services, I am aware of the fact that this opens doors and gates for abuse by employers as well. We have this very very big problem with socalled 1-Euro-jobs here in Germany, that's why. It led to the establishing of economic business models that from all beginning on depend on paying employees only 1 Euro per hpour, and the remaining needs of the employee being taken care of by the tax payer. As a consequence such jobs destroy regular jobs, again at the cost of the general public. Plus it makes you feel like dirt knowing that your emplyoer only emplys you because you are worth to him just one Euro per hour - that is abuse, and in principle modern slavery, unvoluntarily subsidised by the tax payers, while some profiteer collects the cream. That'S why I tend to think on a design that accepts to give the basic wellfare help for free, an essential basis of help without much luxury, and then with an option to increase slightly over that aid level - by signing in to community service jobs like soopaman mentioned - this then earny the wellfare receiver additional stamps or special stamps or maybe even a little money. - But again, children's aid should be unaffected by this.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

okay, so as a grocery store worker this has been eating me up: The fact that you can get big ticket items on food stamps such items as:

-Beef tenderloins -20.99/lb
-snow crab legs -10.00/lb
-King crab legs - 19.99/lb
-New your Strip, t-bone, ribeye 10-12.99/lb

honestly this grinds my gears. I think these items should be prohibited. Lets face it, food stamps are there because you cannot afford to eat supposedly...not because you cannot afford to eat like a king! I'm all for people being able to get normal, less expensive products like chicken, pork and less expensive beef cuts...but King Crab legs??? really?! we once even had a lady buy $200.000 worth on food stamps because she just got her benefits. Honestly unless these people start sharing this crab with me in a little fed up. I can't afford that stuff, and as a college student i'll get like 50 a month if i got EBT.

This may be a first, but I agree with you 100%.

I personally think that people who are completely on the dole should, after a certain period of time, be issued ration packs rather than the ability to make their own purchases on the taxpayer dime.

If fact, I think that this is indicative of what is the problem with our welfare system as a whole - instead of helping people simply get by, we've gone so far as to take the misery out of poverty. Let's be honest: in the US if you're on welfare and food stamps, odds are you still have clean, running water, taxpayer funded utilities, a nice flat screen TV, etc.

[Skybird]

Ready-packs indeed are another possibility. One pack per week, for an adult for example so and so much milk, butter, tea-bags, apples, bananas, citrons, eggs, bread, some ordinary cheese, potatoes, and so on.

Again, no cigarettes, no soft drinks, no whisky etc.

On cloathes and school material, you probably still are better off with a stamp system. The needs are too diverse and cannot be systematically predicted.

Social aid, wellfare, is about the essentials of life, and staying healthy. It's not about luxury. The system we have in Germany now, called Hartz-IV, in itself again is not perfect, since it is too theoretically founded, and not pragmatically oriented towards reality. It was thought out by some disconnected egghead in the locked ivory tower, I think. As a result some parasites - singles for the most - live relatively comfortable by it, while others, especially hard-trying families with kids, who are good-willed to get out of fate's pit indeed, get too little.

Oh, and one thing. Getting pregnant while on wellfare should get rewarded by punishing sanctions. Protect the new baby, if you think that is a moral imperative, but let the parents feel the penalty for sure. Only bread and water, so to speak.

[soopaman2]

Here in America getting knocked up with another sprog is rewarded with more welfare and stamps.

Yeah that is another issue.

It should be a safety net, not a way of life.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Ready-packs indeed are another possibility. One pack per week, for an adult for example so and so much milk, butter, tea-bags, apples, bananas, citrons, eggs, bread, some ordinary cheese, potatoes, and so on.

Again, no cigarettes, no soft drinks, no whisky etc.

On cloathes and school material, you probably still are better off with a stamp system. The needs are too diverse and cannot be systematically predicted.

Social aid, wellfare, is about the essentials of life, and staying healthy. It's not about luxury. The system we have in Germany now, called Hartz-IV, in itself again is not perfect, since it is too theoretically founded, and not pragmatically oriented towards reality. It was thought out by some disconnected egghead in the locked ivory tower, I think. As a result some parasites - singles for the most - live relatively comfortable by it, while others, especially hard-trying families with kids, who are good-willed to get out of fate's pit indeed, get too little.

Oh, and one thing. Getting pregnant while on wellfare should get rewarded by punishing sanctions. Protect the new baby, if you think that is a moral imperative, but let the parents feel the penalty for sure. Only bread and water, so to speak.

Perhaps for items like clothing and school supplies, there should be an audit system requiring welfare users to justify and account for every bit of currency spent?

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Here in America getting knocked up with another sprog is rewarded with more welfare and stamps.

Yeah that is another issue.

It should be a safety net, not a way of life.

I think most would agree, but how do you specifically ensure it's the former and not the latter?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Perhaps for items like clothing and school supplies, there should be an audit system requiring welfare users to justify and account for every bit of currency spent?

Sounds like even more bureaucracy. Stamps seem to be simplier to me.

Or a distribution of needed pencils and paper and books to children directly at school, after showing a pass.

Every little detail in every single case is probably impossible to be dealt with anyway, and we therefore should not seek for it - the bureaucratic price could get too high. What it is about is to get the bigger picture, the greater scheme right, and to link the value of aid given to the purposes it is meant for. The systems we have in place now, are too unbalanced, and too open for intentional abuse as well as erratic functioning by flawed design.

Children should qualify for education not due to the social class and income of their parents, but by their abilities and skills. Those having potential should be able to make it through a good education, so that they do not needlessly get turned into the next generation of social wellfare receivers. However, today poltiicians seem to think that achievement in learning and education is something that can be given, can be distributed, and must not be earned. That is a big mispercpetion, imo. It should not be about giving everybody the same educaiton grade and level - this only leads to the general skill levels of all kids declining, and the potzentially better kids with better potewntials getting mistreated by calling them back to mediocre performance levels and hindering them to achieve more and to do better. Damn socialist ideology it is here in Germany. In our schools, the general skill levels of the pupils are delcining - while their school notes go up. What happened is that the authoprities tried to cosmetically correct the bad performance results by lowering the standards. And necessarily this causes a terrible backfiring.

Children, and peope, are not all of the same skill and potential. Everybody, but especially left-leaning people have to finally understand this. Collective mediocrity is not the answer, but to let those being able to perform better performing better indeed instead of ordering them back and demotivating them so that they should fall back into line with the inferior performers, compared to them. Each and everybody to his abilities, not everybody according to a general level of low mediocrity. Nobody ha sht right to demand to be seen as a big number just because that is what he wants to be. Everbody should have the right to prove that he is, and if he is not, than he should find his place at a lower ranking. Those places below the top are needed, too.

Husband of a good friend of mine is school teacher. He is ordered to give class exames with three mistake still an A-grade! If the kid is at risk to not make it to the next class, he is ordered to give notes in such a way that transfer to naxt class becomes possible nevertheless! If the general note-score of the school is falkling beyond a mean level demanded by the ministry, then all teachers are unofficially told and pressed to reduce the standards and to give better notes, in order to raise the general school performance level that way!

Sorry, I'm straying off, but this is issue is dear to me, and the conspirarcy in German education system is shocking, imo. Not only do we sell the next egneration into misery that way, we also ruin our nation's own future. And the reform of the university grades and titles, from German engineer diploma to these isiotic bachelors and masters - don'T even get me sdtarted. The Bologna process, as the EU euphemistically calls it, is a crime, and a textbook example of utmost bureaucratic dillentism. The cynical gangster having initiated it should be lined up at the wall and shot, in all seriousness. I'm so tired, so very very tired of seeing this sick breed of retards ruining our nations and our whole cultural sphere and running parties in celebrating themselves for it.

Thread successfully hijacked, I assume?!

[krashkart]

Was in a bad run of unemployment, had to apply for the card. I tried to hide it, but the monitor over the cash register would print it out below the balance:

FOOD STAMPS



I think the store changed the policy on that at some point -- much to my relief. But I always made sure that the card disappeared back into my pocket as soon as it left the slot. It was a pride thing I had going on then.

If I ate anything at all in a day it was food I could afford within my means. If I wanted a fancy, expensive meal I'd have to wait until one of my better-off friends or family invited me out to dinner.

At the time it would have been better if I had died in my sleep or been run over by a semi. But looking back on the experience I'm glad I had the help.

I don't worry too much about what other people do with their EBT cards. What's important to me is that I keep my nose to the grindstone and do the best I can. That much I can be happy about, and I still have a clear conscience.

[Aramike]

Sounds like even more bureaucracy. Stamps seem to be simplier to me.

Normally I'd agree, except I'm sure we can find some bureaucrats in useless roles to take on the task.

The way I see it, if you're on welfare you should have plenty of time to properly manage your finances. It's the discipline piece that many recipients have a problem with, and that's partly why they're struggling in the first place.

[CptSimFreak]

I recall my student days......10c per noddle package.....yeah... not good for but still.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by krashkart

Was in a bad run of unemployment, had to apply for the card. I tried to hide it, but the monitor over the cash register would print it out below the balance:

FOOD STAMPS



I think the store changed the policy on that at some point -- much to my relief. But I always made sure that the card disappeared back into my pocket as soon as it left the slot. It was a pride thing I had going on then.

If I ate anything at all in a day it was food I could afford within my means. If I wanted a fancy, expensive meal I'd have to wait until one of my better-off friends or family invited me out to dinner.

At the time it would have been better if I had died in my sleep or been run over by a semi. But looking back on the experience I'm glad I had the help.

I don't worry too much about what other people do with their EBT cards. What's important to me is that I keep my nose to the grindstone and do the best I can. That much I can be happy about, and I still have a clear conscience.

One of my biggest pride swallowing moments in life was when I applied for unemployment.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

One of my biggest pride swallowing moments in life was when I applied for unemployment.

Originally Posted by krashkart

What's important to me is that I keep my nose to the grindstone and do the best I can. That much I can be happy about, and I still have a clear conscience.

You see - this is what the programs are supposed to be - sure, my tax money went to pay for "your" benefits. But ya know - I went through a bout of unemployment too. I got help - as hard as it was to admit it was needed. We helped each other out - and each of use wanted to move on with life and make it better.

No one - of any political stripe - has a problem with doing this in ways that allow people to bounce back.

Its those that choose not to - that need addressing.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Ready-packs indeed are another possibility. One pack per week, for an adult for example so and so much milk, butter, tea-bags, apples, bananas, citrons, eggs, bread, some ordinary cheese, potatoes, and so on.
.

I might bring up however, there are a multitude of disorders and food allergies that throw a wrench in this idea. Many different dietary needs exist. It's good on paper, but you will also have to pay a person to make and deliver these "ready made packs". No grocery store I know of will stock these, since space is at a premium in even the largest stores. For example. I got 7 skids (whole pallets) of stock today. Don't know how all of those will go into the cooler. Good luck night stock

Originally Posted by CptSimFreak

I recall my student days......10c per noddle package.....yeah... not good for but still.

man, their 30 cents now!

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

One of my biggest pride swallowing moments in life was when I applied for unemployment.

means you are a normal, good person