Ship Lengths? (TMO & RSRDC)

Dellinger · 03-07-12, 11:32 PM

Searched through the 'tips' links, videos, google, TMO readme the search function here and nothing... (well google did say a Hog Island Type A Freighter was 401')

So does anyone have the ship lengths for the TMO 2.5 & RSRDC modded game? Or are the lengths the same as stock? (The recognition manual doesn't have the black/white lenght segments at the bottom in TMO).

And one other thing while I'm here...
Since was trying to find out lenghts, I ran into a very large thread on the OTC mod. Tried reading some of it but not going to read all the pages... so in brief can anyone tell me if this mod is now compatible with TMO and RSRDC? The pages I made it through sounded as if it was not going to jive.

Thanks for the feedback!

DrBeast · 03-07-12, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dellinger

And one other thing while I'm here...
Since was trying to find out lenghts, I ran into a very large thread on the OTC mod. Tried reading some of it but not going to read all the pages... so in brief can anyone tell me if this mod is now compatible with TMO and RSRDC? The pages I made it through sounded as if it was not going to jive.

Thanks for the feedback!

Nope, not yet, though CaptainScurvy might eventually roll out a compatible version - not an easy task, since he has to go through ALL the Data/Sea units in each mod and make his adjustments, among other things.

CapnScurvy · 03-09-12, 11:53 PM

Just happened to be grazing through the forum before turning off the 'ol puter and read your post.

I plan to release both a TMO 2.5 and a RSRDCv502 version of Optical Targeting Correction this weekend. Maybe tomorrow, we'll see how the bundling of the compressed files go and getting them to upload onto GameFront.

I'll be posting on the OTC thread when their up.

Yes, as DrBeast said, going through just the Sea folder with RSRDC is daunting. What makes it worse is there are three or four RSRDC ships that are listed with a different "type" than what TMO uses, which has a couple of different "types" than what the stock game has. Why can't we all just get along?!!

The reason its critical to get this stuff right is a CTD will occur anytime you leaf through the Recognition Manual and come up on the ship that doesn't have the right "type" listed. Nobody wants that. Especially the guy that says, "This mod is compatible with another".

hcs53 · 03-10-12, 05:04 AM

Great, thanks for all the work.

Dellinger · 03-10-12, 02:08 PM

CapnScurvy,

Very nice of you, thanks!

However, now that I finally found the ship lengths in the sea folder (

didn't think of that originally...) I just became more confused.

And this question is posed to anyone- Which takes precedence in regards to ship length if one is running TMO and RSRDC? The data from TMO or RSRDC?

Also, if the OTC mod ends up working for a TMO/RSRDC game, then which set of data takes precedence when talking about ship lenghts?

Sorry if my questions are elementary.

DrBeast · 03-10-12, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dellinger

CapnScurvy,

Very nice of you, thanks!

However, now that I finally found the ship lengths in the sea folder (

didn't think of that originally...) I just became more confused.

And this question is posed to anyone- Which takes precedence in regards to ship length if one is running TMO and RSRDC? The data from TMO or RSRDC?

Also, if the OTC mod ends up working for a TMO/RSRDC game, then which set of data takes precedence when talking about ship lenghts?

Sorry if my questions are elementary.

Rule of thumb is: whenever two (or more) mods modify the same parameters, the mod loaded LAST with JSGME will always take precedence.

Dellinger · 03-10-12, 04:06 PM

Ah... (hat tip to Dr. Beast)

CapnScurvy · 03-10-12, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dellinger

Also, if the OTC mod ends up working for a TMO/RSRDC game, then which set of data takes precedence when talking about ship lenghts?

As DrBeast points out, the last file "activated" in JSGME is the one the game uses to supplement the stock game files. A file of the same name, but being activated earlier in the order, will be overwritten by the latter. That's one reason I've never taken the approach of loading up my game with mods that I don't have an idea what they change or overwrite. Just not a good thing to do.

To answer your specific question TMO, RSRDC, and many other mods, don't have the ship lengths used. Yes your right, the stock game lists ShipLength=xxxxx in the .cfg files but its not used. Never has been. The developers never got around to implementing the information from the .cfg file completely. The mast heights ARE used to calculate the stadimeter findings with the determined degree of angle to figure range. The ship lengths were never put to use. As I checked the lengths to the corrected telemeter divisions with OTC I discovered the listed lengths are fairly accurate. They may be off just a couple of meters, but that's really good compared to the stock mast heights that have been found to be 20 or more meters off.

Through OTC, I measured each mast height and ship length and added the corrected measurements to the Recognition Manual (again, this is not done with the stock game, TMO, RSRDC, etc.). So OTC really isn't overwriting previous game files; ship lengths were never part of the game. After all, why provide ship dimensions when the scopes don't have an accurate way of measuring from point A to point B?

CapnScurvy · 03-11-12, 10:06 AM

Dellinger, and to anyone interested. I've released my two latest Optical Targeting Correction mods version 1.5. These two are compatible with the TMO 2.5 mod and the RSRDCv502 that goes with TMO.

The links are below.

Optical Targeting Correction 1.5 for TMO 2.5
March, 2012
This edition of OTC 1.5 is compatible with "TriggerMaru Overhaul 2.5"

Optical Targeting Correction 1.5 for RSRDCv502
March, 2012
This edition of OTC 1.5 is compatible with RSRDC v502 and its Patch (the Run Silent, Run Deep Campaign mod that's made for TMO)

Both have the corrected ship lenghts and reference heights in the Recognition Manual.

A rundown of the OTC 1.5 changes can be found HERE.

I'm goin' down · 03-11-12, 11:08 AM

I have a couple of comments.

First, TMO2.0, RSRDC, and OTC mod have been compatible for awhile, but TMO2.5 was not until the recent release of a complatible version of RSRDC and OTC, supra. As for the recent release, thanks CapnScurvy. Y Note, you can modify the above mod combination with Fred's pre December 7th start date mod.

Second, there was a dispute awhile back about whether the Americans knew Japanese ship lengths, as according RR, the Japanese tried to keep their ships' lengths a secret. If the ships' lengths were unknown to the American submariners, it undermines the realsim of the OTC mod for which input of ships' lengths is a key component. Personally, I do not care, as I like the OTC mod, and will continue to use it regardless.

Third, RR either stated or implied that optical targeting device that CapnScury created was not utilized, despite the fact that CapnScurvy has a picture of one. I think it is mentioned in the Submarine Firing Manual, too. I do not know what the truth is, and do not particularly care, as the OTC mod is one of my favorites. But some may have problems with the "authenticity" issue. I do not (not that what I think matters.)

Fourth, I prefer OTC to the 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit, because I always mix up the steps in the later mod. When that happens, I have to start my plan of attack over, and I either go nuts, screw up the attack, or both. Screwing up an attack with the 3D TDC mod means you have wasted an hour or two, and for me it translates into breaking my laptop out of frustration. For those with more patience, the 3D TDC is a great mod.

Fifth, another option is to use the Easy Aob mod in lieu of the OTC or 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit. It is much more "player" friendly, but is incompatible with both mods. The last time I tried it, the Easy Aob was not compatible with either of them. I have a fondness for the Easy Aob, because it was the first major technical break through of the recent generation of attack mods. Its creator, nicolas, is from south america, and is a computer programmer by trade. ddgrn then modified it for all of the Supermods, and readied it for downloading. He is from Canada. Two subsim superstars from yesteryear. But for pure creative genius, CapnScurvy and Nisgeis (3D TDC and Radar Range Unit) blew the doors off the vault. I will never forget watching Run Silent Run Deep, and jumping out of my chair when the camera scanned over a 3D TDC unit. I jumped up and said, "They copied Nisgeis' mod!" (But the sleazy producer left him out of the film credits!)

One final kudos for OTC. Its radar units, which you can install via a separate mod and use from the inception of the war if the boat is equipped with radar, is excellent. It picks up planes and ships, and makes playing with maps contacts disabled quite enjoyable. You can easily recognize aircraft, as they move accross the radar screen noticeably quickly in comparison to vessels. The tutorials re the various types of radar is an interesting and very informative read.

Dellinger · 03-11-12, 05:29 PM

Wow, great info here. Thanks again for the time to respond.

So, to clarify (and please forgive my ignorance)...

Current mods I'm running are the...
TMO2.5
RSRDC

BUT I don't have 'a RSRDC patch' installed... so I need to find this patch before installing OTC so it will be compatible...? And just what is this patches name? I looked in the downloads section and nothing stood out to me.

And to confirm, the patch for OTC I need is the second one on Capn's list- OTC Correction 1.5 for RSRDC?

So, in the end my installed MODS should appear in JSMGE as so:
TMO
RSRDC
RSRDC patch
OTC

?

Thank you!

I'm goin' down · 03-11-12, 05:44 PM

Go the RSRDC thread. The patch is in the first post in the thread -- by lurker.

DrBeast · 03-11-12, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dellinger

Wow, great info here. Thanks again for the time to respond.

So, to clarify (and please forgive my ignorance)...

Current mods I'm running are the...
TMO2.5
RSRDC

BUT I don't have 'a RSRDC patch' installed... so I need to find this patch before installing OTC so it will be compatible...? And just what is this patches name? I looked in the downloads section and nothing stood out to me.

And to confirm, the patch for OTC I need is the second one on Capn's list- OTC Correction 1.5 for RSRDC?

So, in the end my installed MODS should appear in JSMGE as so:
TMO
RSRDC
RSRDC patch
OTC

?

Thank you!

RSRDC Patch: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1459

Required/works for all 5xx versions of the mod.

Your listed installation order is correct

Make sure you use the OTC version for RSRDC v502 (cause that's the TMO-compatible version of RSRDC, and I assume that's the one you're using).

Dellinger · 03-11-12, 06:23 PM

eye-eye!

DrBeast · 03-11-12, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dellinger

eye-eye!

This what you mean?

03-07-12, 11:32 PM	#1
Dellinger Seaman Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 31 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Ship Lengths? (TMO & RSRDC) Searched through the 'tips' links, videos, google, TMO readme the search function here and nothing... (well google did say a Hog Island Type A Freighter was 401') So does anyone have the ship lengths for the TMO 2.5 & RSRDC modded game? Or are the lengths the same as stock? (The recognition manual doesn't have the black/white lenght segments at the bottom in TMO). And one other thing while I'm here... Since was trying to find out lenghts, I ran into a very large thread on the OTC mod. Tried reading some of it but not going to read all the pages... so in brief can anyone tell me if this mod is now compatible with TMO and RSRDC? The pages I made it through sounded as if it was not going to jive. Thanks for the feedback!

03-11-12, 11:08 AM	#10
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	Some comments I have a couple of comments. First, TMO2.0, RSRDC, and OTC mod have been compatible for awhile, but TMO2.5 was not until the recent release of a complatible version of RSRDC and OTC, supra. As for the recent release, thanks CapnScurvy. Y Note, you can modify the above mod combination with Fred's pre December 7th start date mod. Second, there was a dispute awhile back about whether the Americans knew Japanese ship lengths, as according RR, the Japanese tried to keep their ships' lengths a secret. If the ships' lengths were unknown to the American submariners, it undermines the realsim of the OTC mod for which input of ships' lengths is a key component. Personally, I do not care, as I like the OTC mod, and will continue to use it regardless. Third, RR either stated or implied that optical targeting device that CapnScury created was not utilized, despite the fact that CapnScurvy has a picture of one. I think it is mentioned in the Submarine Firing Manual, too. I do not know what the truth is, and do not particularly care, as the OTC mod is one of my favorites. But some may have problems with the "authenticity" issue. I do not (not that what I think matters.) Fourth, I prefer OTC to the 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit, because I always mix up the steps in the later mod. When that happens, I have to start my plan of attack over, and I either go nuts, screw up the attack, or both. Screwing up an attack with the 3D TDC mod means you have wasted an hour or two, and for me it translates into breaking my laptop out of frustration. For those with more patience, the 3D TDC is a great mod. Fifth, another option is to use the Easy Aob mod in lieu of the OTC or 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit. It is much more "player" friendly, but is incompatible with both mods. The last time I tried it, the Easy Aob was not compatible with either of them. I have a fondness for the Easy Aob, because it was the first major technical break through of the recent generation of attack mods. Its creator, nicolas, is from south america, and is a computer programmer by trade. ddgrn then modified it for all of the Supermods, and readied it for downloading. He is from Canada. Two subsim superstars from yesteryear. But for pure creative genius, CapnScurvy and Nisgeis (3D TDC and Radar Range Unit) blew the doors off the vault. I will never forget watching Run Silent Run Deep, and jumping out of my chair when the camera scanned over a 3D TDC unit. I jumped up and said, "They copied Nisgeis' mod!" (But the sleazy producer left him out of the film credits!) One final kudos for OTC. Its radar units, which you can install via a separate mod and use from the inception of the war if the boat is equipped with radar, is excellent. It picks up planes and ships, and makes playing with maps contacts disabled quite enjoyable. You can easily recognize aircraft, as they move accross the radar screen noticeably quickly in comparison to vessels. The tutorials re the various types of radar is an interesting and very informative read. Last edited by I'm goin' down; 03-12-12 at 12:28 AM.

03-10-12, 05:04 AM	#4
hcs53 Frogman Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Nederland Posts: 301 Downloads: 557 Uploads: 0	Great, thanks for all the work.

03-10-12, 02:08 PM	#5
Dellinger Seaman Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 31 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	CapnScurvy, Very nice of you, thanks! However, now that I finally found the ship lengths in the sea folder ( didn't think of that originally...) I just became more confused. And this question is posed to anyone- Which takes precedence in regards to ship length if one is running TMO and RSRDC? The data from TMO or RSRDC? Also, if the OTC mod ends up working for a TMO/RSRDC game, then which set of data takes precedence when talking about ship lenghts? Sorry if my questions are elementary.

03-10-12, 04:06 PM	#7
Dellinger Seaman Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 31 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Ah... (hat tip to Dr. Beast)

03-11-12, 05:29 PM	#11
Dellinger Seaman Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 31 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Wow, great info here. Thanks again for the time to respond. So, to clarify (and please forgive my ignorance)... Current mods I'm running are the... TMO2.5 RSRDC BUT I don't have 'a RSRDC patch' installed... so I need to find this patch before installing OTC so it will be compatible...? And just what is this patches name? I looked in the downloads section and nothing stood out to me. And to confirm, the patch for OTC I need is the second one on Capn's list- OTC Correction 1.5 for RSRDC? So, in the end my installed MODS should appear in JSMGE as so: TMO RSRDC RSRDC patch OTC ? Thank you!

03-11-12, 05:44 PM	#12
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	Go the RSRDC thread. The patch is in the first post in the thread -- by lurker.

03-11-12, 06:23 PM	#14
Dellinger Seaman Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 31 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	eye-eye!