Maastricht bans cannabis coffee-shop tourists

[Gerald]

"You cut off all the supply"...no easy task but a very good option.

[MothBalls]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

You want to stop drug use - you cut off all the supply.

I disagree.

You create the supply yourself and control it.

In the US we should give away free heroin, meth, and all of the addictive drugs that make junkies commit crimes. In exchange for getting it free, they have to attend short [10 minute] lectures on rehab, offer them help to kick the habit, and help them take control. Bottom line is a junkie is going to be a junkie until he/she decides to stop. Until they make that choice, give em the crap they need without forcing them into prostitution or other criminal activity that preys on society.

Then legalize and tax the crap out of recreational drugs like pot. Make is a legitimate crop, legal to import and put tariffs on. Control it like alcohol.

Then we wouldn't have drug cartels terrorizing border towns. They'd go broke. It would take all of the drug money out of the hands of organized crime and could then be controlled and possibly slowly eliminated.

[Penguin]

If they close the legal market, the black market will rise again, with all it's problems: bad weed, sale of hard drugs, crime, etc... There won't be one marijuana consumer less.

A drug free society is an utopia. The war on drugs is no war, as wars can be won. The Netherlands had a pretty good model.
Interestingly enough the percentage of pot smokers in the Netherlands is lower than in its neighboring countries - also the percentage of juveniles who smoke pot - maybe the attraction of forbidden fruits is not there.

Regarding the US: I find Alaska's handling of the issue pretty good and pragmatic - yeah, those damned liberal blue states!

Originally Posted by Egan

The Belgian/German exemption seems odd. Considering that the vast majority of drug tourists in Maastricht are going to be day trippers from either of these countries, why bother putting through legislation if you're then going to exempt 95% of the people who would be hit by it?

I heard it a week ago, when a friend told me that a coffee shop owner in Maastricht told him that they will continue to sell to Germans but not to the French, couldn't believe it first.
The plans were first to sell only to Dutch, I wonder why they made the exceptions, hard to say how big the economical influence of the coffee shop owners is. My guess is that it could be also a proposal by the police, as they are very pragmatic over there and have certainly better things to do than arresting people with small amounts of weed.

[Gerald]

For God's sake let the Germans have some fun on the weekends...

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by Vendor

A ban on some foreign tourists has come into force in the cannabis-selling coffee shops of the Dutch border city of Maastricht.

City authorities say the influx of tourists buying soft drugs is threatening public order and causing major traffic problems.


But from Saturday, anyone who doesn't hold a Dutch, Belgian or German passport will be told to leave.


City authorities say drug tourists pose a threat to public order.

For my own little tourist jaunt some years ago, we used public transport the whole time - I was generally in no fit state to drive anyway. We had a polite, english time in amsterdam, enjoying such sights and museums as were available.
If we went to a bar/pub we reservedly enquired if it was ok to 'smoke' as we didn't want to offend by just lighting up a bifta like some ganja n00b. We were universally received with polite thanks for having the courtesy to ask. Most places were ok with it, and those who weren't were quite happy for us to occupy their canal-side seating and indulge over a pint or two. Many pleasant hours were spent this way, soaking up the sights and sounds of such a beautiful city.
It was still an unnerving experience smoking a skunk spliff over a pint at the out door seating and having a friendly chat with the local plod, who were keen to tell us of the best museums and welcoming clubs with live music at the weekends.
One club we ended up at was one of the most exceptional venues I have ever been to. Not only for the first rate musicians who played a storming blues set all night long, but for the open and welcoming nature of just about everyone in the building. Despite there being a 'no slpiff' policy and only alcohol to grease the wheels we had a good chat with several different bunches of people, some of whom came from other countries, especially to this venue for such a great night out. It was an evening to surpass many I've spent in my homeland.

I can honestly say, there were only four times that I felt uncomfortable in amsterdam.

The first was being accosted by the doorman to a shady club, asking us in to see the live sex show - after all, it only being my second day there and being quite hideously stoned, it was more than my prim little english mores could accommodate at such short notice.

The second was fending off the smackheads begging for money; they were really quite persistent - had it been later at night and with less people about I'd not have been surprised if mere repetitive begging had turned into a mugging.

The third, I am sorry to say, was because of a large group of my northern cousins and their brash and unpleasant interest in .... yes .... football. That ever present stain on our reputation both at home and most especially in foreign climes.
More specifically, Celtic fans. They are neither unique or original in the way they made the city centre of amsterdam an extremely intimidating place to be, with their loud and prolific numbers. Such is my universal experience of football fans.

Funny how I never feel the same undertow of violence when confronted with the spectacle of thousands of rugby fans in my home city.

The fourth was realising that it was almost impossible to get my grubby hands on a full english breakfast anywhere. Though I was offered some very nice dutch gin, instead of the ubiquitous fry-up, by the rotund and bombastic fellow who ran the campsite we were staying at. Yes, we camped in the middle of a city... how dutch is that?

My only question is why only the belgians and ze germans? I can perhaps understand keeping germany sweet and loaded; no one is going to get any more ideas of european invasion when there's smokes and brownies to be had, not to mention hookers too, if you can still walk
But why belguim?


EDIT: had I known about him back then, I'd have sought out the place where Chet Baker met his end. I believe I walked right past it on several occasions.

[Gerald]

Interesting story, I guess the politicians want to show his power, but of course the system is wrong, there are other ways to deal with this stuff.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by jumpy

For my own little tourist jaunt some years ago, we used public transport the whole time - I was generally in no fit state to drive anyway. We had a polite, english time in amsterdam, enjoying such sights and museums as were available.
If we went to a bar/pub we reservedly enquired if it was ok to 'smoke' as we didn't want to offend by just lighting up a bifta like some ganja n00b. We were universally received with polite thanks for having the courtesy to ask. Most places were ok with it, and those who weren't were quite happy for us to occupy their canal-side seating and indulge over a pint or two. Many pleasant hours were spent this way, soaking up the sights and sounds of such a beautiful city.
It was still an unnerving experience smoking a skunk spliff over a pint at the out door seating and having a friendly chat with the local plod, who were keen to tell us of the best museums and welcoming clubs with live music at the weekends.
One club we ended up at was one of the most exceptional venues I have ever been to. Not only for the first rate musicians who played a storming blues set all night long, but for the open and welcoming nature of just about everyone in the building. Despite there being a 'no slpiff' policy and only alcohol to grease the wheels we had a good chat with several different bunches of people, some of whom came from other countries, especially to this venue for such a great night out. It was an evening to surpass many I've spent in my homeland.

I can honestly say, there were only four times that I felt uncomfortable in amsterdam.

The first was being accosted by the doorman to a shady club, asking us in to see the live sex show - after all, it only being my second day there and being quite hideously stoned, it was more than my prim little english mores could accommodate at such short notice.

The second was fending off the smackheads begging for money; they were really quite persistent - had it been later at night and with less people about I'd not have been surprised if mere repetitive begging had turned into a mugging.

The third, I am sorry to say, was because of a large group of my northern cousins and their brash and unpleasant interest in .... yes .... football. That ever present stain on our reputation both at home and most especially in foreign climes.
More specifically, Celtic fans. They are neither unique or original in the way they made the city centre of amsterdam an extremely intimidating place to be, with their loud and prolific numbers. Such is my universal experience of football fans.

Funny how I never feel the same undertow of violence when confronted with the spectacle of thousands of rugby fans in my home city.

The fourth was realising that it was almost impossible to get my grubby hands on a full english breakfast anywhere. Though I was offered some very nice dutch gin, instead of the ubiquitous fry-up, by the rotund and bombastic fellow who ran the campsite we were staying at. Yes, we camped in the middle of a city... how dutch is that?

My only question is why only the belgians and ze germans? I can perhaps understand keeping germany sweet and loaded; no one is going to get any more ideas of european invasion when there's smokes and brownies to be had, not to mention hookers too, if you can still walk
But why belguim?


EDIT: had I known about him back then, I'd have sought out the place where Chet Baker met his end. I believe I walked right past it on several occasions.

Don't tell me you walked past the Banana Bar without paying a visit!!

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by MothBalls

I disagree.

You create the supply yourself and control it.

In the US we should give away free heroin, meth, and all of the addictive drugs that make junkies commit crimes. In exchange for getting it free, they have to attend short [10 minute] lectures on rehab, offer them help to kick the habit, and help them take control. Bottom line is a junkie is going to be a junkie until he/she decides to stop. Until they make that choice, give em the crap they need without forcing them into prostitution or other criminal activity that preys on society.

Then legalize and tax the crap out of recreational drugs like pot. Make is a legitimate crop, legal to import and put tariffs on. Control it like alcohol.

Then we wouldn't have drug cartels terrorizing border towns. They'd go broke. It would take all of the drug money out of the hands of organized crime and could then be controlled and possibly slowly eliminated.

The problem with that idea is that yoru subsidizing bad habits. So what happens with the kid who is 14 now walks into the "clinic" at 18 and wants to have a hit.... You legalize it - your going to never end the problem.

Lock down the borders where the stuff can't come in - and the supply inside the country will dry up. Can't shoot what you don't have.

I am not talking about pot here - we are talking the serious stuff.Its just like meth - most states now track sales of stuff like cold medicine that can make it. Take away the ingredients (or in the case of other drugs - the finished product prior to shipment) and the problem eases.

You can either fight the problem - or "accept" it. Acceptance means its never going away...

Well any trip I May have hoped for is now gone.
If I want to see a dyke?
I can go to the nearest town to me and see several walking around!
And I ain't putting my finger in those holes!


I'm not a pot smoker because of the issues involved here in the U.S.
But any trip I may have made was because I could legally try some stuff.
So I guess I'll just do Hawaii again when money permits.
At least the weather is great there!

Sorry Dutch people. You don't get my money.

[jumpy]

Jim,
I don't recall the name of the venue - it had a canal running by it and looked decidedly seedy. I was only just acclimatising myself to the 25 gilder bag of 'white russian'. Plus the lass I was with at the time (just mates) was a bit impressionable; most assuredly not the kind of ideas I wanted to have to deal with hehe.

Privateer, you might still be ok if they only ban consumption by foreigners in maastricht, not amsterdam. Hard to say. It'll be a shame if they do as it's one (though not the only) of the great things about holland is the coffee shops.

Any trip I hope to make to Holland someday is for one reason.
Operation Market Garden.

As a past member of the 82nd AirBorne?
I'd like to visit that dz and pay my respects to the Troopers that jumped into the unknown.

I really don't care about smokeing the funny weed to be honest.
I could do it here and get away with it as I'm self employed and don't have any drug testing.


I just don't like the stuff now days.

[jumpy]

It was more about the whole coffee shop thing, than just getting whacked, soo much variety, for me anyways
Some good museums though, then there's the battlefield tours and stuff too.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by jumpy

Jim,
I don't recall the name of the venue - it had a canal running by it and looked decidedly seedy. I was only just acclimatising myself to the 25 gilder bag of 'white russian'. Plus the lass I was with at the time (just mates) was a bit impressionable; most assuredly not the kind of ideas I wanted to have to deal with hehe.

Privateer, you might still be ok if they only ban consumption by foreigners in maastricht, not amsterdam. Hard to say. It'll be a shame if they do as it's one (though not the only) of the great things about holland is the coffee shops.

Ah, right....I resided there over 21 years ago so there's a good chance it is something else now...unfortunately

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

The problem with that idea is that yoru subsidizing bad habits. So what happens with the kid who is 14 now walks into the "clinic" at 18 and wants to have a hit.... You legalize it - your going to never end the problem.

Lock down the borders where the stuff can't come in - and the supply inside the country will dry up. Can't shoot what you don't have.

I am not talking about pot here - we are talking the serious stuff.Its just like meth - most states now track sales of stuff like cold medicine that can make it. Take away the ingredients (or in the case of other drugs - the finished product prior to shipment) and the problem eases.

You can either fight the problem - or "accept" it. Acceptance means its never going away...

Interestingly enough though, what you suggest does not match up well with the reality in countries which have legalized the stuff.

Also the concept of locking up all the boarders is absurd, and impossible. You can't possibly stop all traffic inside the country, and if you tried you would seriously disrupt all trade too (which is the main way drugs enter the country). Plus all you end up doing is jacking up the street price which just increases the amount of crime and associated problems, not to mention risk to the users. Lastly if you could block off sources outside the country, people will just make the stuff inside the country. As for tracking stuff like cold medicine, hate to break it to you, but that will just stop the small time manufacturers who get their stuff from pharmacies, it won't slow down the big boys (who will own the companies that make the stuff). Generally criminal enterprises thrive the more difficult it is to get something, as they make far more money that way. One of the cocaine cartels for example almost went out of business, as they got too good at smuggling large quantities and flooded the market so badly the street price dropped below their costs.

You can't fight the problem that way, it is just logistically and financially impossible. The problem also will never go away either, there will always be a segment of the population who will do this (just like they abuse alcohol).

[Egan]

[QUOTE=jumpy;1759047]Jim,
I don't recall the name of the venue - it had a canal running by it and looked decidedly seedy.
QUOTE]

Dutch Flowers by any chance? Mind you, it's about a decade since I was last there but I don't remember it being too seedy; quite nice really. I spent a lovely afternoon there drinking coffee, reading and sheltering from the snow, (like many European cities Amsterdam is especially pretty on a cold winter day.) I quite liked the small, local style coffee shops you find here and there but utterly loathed the huge commercial operations (Bulldog? is that one of the chains) which seem no different from the large warehouse style super pubs you get here in Blighty. I imagine the growth of these monsters and the attendant public peace issues are one of the big reasons why the Dutch government is looking to a tourist ban - how they are actually going to achieve it will be interesting.

I like the Netherlands as a country and I think it is a real shame that for many people it is synonymous with sex and drugs but I can't see how a national ban is actually going to work without full criminalization on cannabis again. Is that a good idea? Well, ymmv.

I got offered a job in a coffee shop once. Might have been fun!