Quick question about spreads

ddiplock · 06-12-11, 12:02 PM

Is the offset angle dial in the US TDC the best way of setting a torpedo spread?

So, you'd set an offset angle of say 4 or 5 degrees to left/right depending on the direction of the target in your scope. So if they are sailing to the right in your scope, you set the angle to the right, and left you set the angle to the left and such.

Just trying to figure out how to get my torpedoes to hit ALONG the target rather than kinda in the same area

magic452 · 06-12-11, 02:57 PM

You can use the gyro angle offset dial for this but it is so range sensitive that it's difficult. The longer the range the smaller the offset must be. Once you get use to it, it works pretty good. Your example for 4 or 5° would be for very close targets, more like 1 or 2° would be the norm.

If I am using this method I will lock the target and shoot stern to bow -1, 0 and +1° or whatever is needed. At longer ranges 0.5° may be necessary. I do this when I don't want to leave the scope up for a long time.

A better way to shoot a spread is to first take a final range and bearing measurement. Second turn off the PK, unlock the target and move the scope to a positing slightly ahead of the bow and send range/bearing to TDC and then shoot as the ship crosses the wire shooting bow to stern.
The scope is up for a long time so you have to consider the conditions at the time.

Magic

commandosolo2009 · 06-12-11, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddiplock

Is the offset angle dial in the US TDC the best way of setting a torpedo spread?

So, you'd set an offset angle of say 4 or 5 degrees to left/right depending on the direction of the target in your scope. So if they are sailing to the right in your scope, you set the angle to the right, and left you set the angle to the left and such.

Just trying to figure out how to get my torpedoes to hit ALONG the target rather than kinda in the same area

You my friend, need Dick O'kane's targeting method

Cheers and, for the love of God, keep the spread dial as it is..

Daniel Prates · 06-13-11, 12:50 PM

I too am curious about using spread shots, since as many skippers, I am not used to use this.

Isn't there a simple way to more-or-less use the offset dial? I mean, In a simple way to put it: how much angle (number of degrees) should I offset a shot every, say, 1000 meters or so?

Rockin Robbins · 06-13-11, 03:54 PM

No, the real submariners used slide rules not available to us. It was easy for them and difficult for us.

TorpX · 06-14-11, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

I too am curious about using spread shots, since as many skippers, I am not used to use this.

Isn't there a simple way to more-or-less use the offset dial? I mean, In a simple way to put it: how much angle (number of degrees) should I offset a shot every, say, 1000 meters or so?

Actually, yes there is.
Say you want to torpedo cruiser X at any range and have all the data fed into your TDC and are otherwise ready to loose death and destruction, but for the spread matter. Observe the angular distance of the target; if the stern is at 350 deg., and the bow at 354 deg., you know the target occupies 4 deg. of arc. So you can shoot your torps -2, -1, 0, +1, +2 for 100% coverage. You could also shoot -1.5, 0, +1.5 for 75% coverage. You get the idea. Notice that the spread is in both directions, not just ahead or behind. This is not a perfect method as it doesn't take into account the reach, turning radius of the torpedos or whether the range is closing or opening, but is a good quick and dirty method.

How much coverage should you use? That depends. The main reason for shooting spreads is to make up for errors in the firing solution. If you are confident in you solution you can get by with little or at least less than 100%. If the solution is shaky (as is often the case), more than 100% is indicated.

Frequently, I am not using the TDC and use a longitudinal spread. This is just a different means to the same end though.

Rockin Robbins · 06-14-11, 11:51 AM

That's fine but the tick marks on your periscope are different angular sizes for different screen resolutions. Once you know what they are for your computer, you can do this. On the real periscope, different sets of eyes did not change the angular size of the ticks.

Daniel Prates · 06-14-11, 01:53 PM

Thanks TorpX!

TorpX · 06-15-11, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

That's fine but the tick marks on your periscope are different angular sizes for different screen resolutions. Once you know what they are for your computer, you can do this. On the real periscope, different sets of eyes did not change the angular size of the ticks.

I'm not talking about the tick marks. I mean turning the periscope/TBT and using the index ring with the center wire. That should be good for any resolution (at least I hope so).

Rockin Robbins · 06-15-11, 11:04 AM

Yes, that will work fine and eliminate any error-ridden calculations that tend to muddy up the waters and cause misses. In other words, sight the bow on the centerline and read off the heading. Quickly sight the stern and note that heading. The difference between the two is the angular size of the target.

Now you can use that to figure your spread. Lets say the target is 3 degrees long. A 100% spread would start out at -1.5 degrees from the MOT (middle of target) and end at +1.5 degrees, or the other way around according to what your intended result is, maximally or minimally divergent spread.

I generally shoot a 75% spread, so I would go +1 degree, -1 degree, which is really a 66% spread. Close enough for government work!

Daniel Prates · 06-20-11, 04:19 PM

By now I have already tried spreading my shots a bit. It's a good tactic, several hits in different places appears to be a deadlier procedure.

However, it only works if you're sure your calculations are VERY correct and the fire solution indeed does bring your torps in the very middle of the ship. Otherwise, If you made some slight errors here and there, you will have, say, 1 hit and 3-5 misses where, without spreading, all torps would hit, even it in the extremity of the bow or stern.

TorpX · 06-21-11, 10:41 AM

Spreading your torps is not a "complete" solution. As you've found out, spreading increases your chance of getting a hit, but also increases your chances of missing with some of the torps. If you could be sure of a 100% correct firing solution, you might never need to use a spread. The usual USN method was to use a spread, but not always. I remember reading O'Kane saying once on Wahoo, they fired their last two torpedos on a small freighter, both at the middle. (Morton wanted no cripples.)

Also, I should point out that if you use RFB, you will probably want to use spreads as the damage model works on the basis of flooding compartments, not just a hit point total.

Mescator · 06-22-11, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

I remember reading O'Kane saying once on Wahoo, they fired their last two torpedos on a small freighter, both at the middle. (Morton wanted no cripples.)

It's a bit unfortunate that the game maxes out of damage zones, makes such tactics a bit counter productive to their real world effects = /.

(I've always wondered what the results of a torpedo sailing in through a existing torpedo hole and detonating INSIDE the ship would be, although i expect something quite spectacular.)

Daniel Prates · 06-22-11, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mescator

(I've always wondered what the results of a torpedo sailing in through a existing torpedo hole and detonating INSIDE the ship would be, although i expect something quite spectacular.)

Now imagine that happening to a ship loaded with fireworks.

Armistead · 06-22-11, 03:30 PM

We all shoot spreads, but I prefer to use the stad to get everything plotted, then I'll unlock and shoot by the wire forward to rear, other times I set my spreads by changing enemy speed slightly by .5 to 3 kts because of the enemies ability to stop and speed to flank on a dime I react more to that than the actual setup. WIth M18's I tend to use the spread wheel since they can't see the wake.

As stated damage zones are more or an issue with either mod, although RFB is a lil more realistic with NSM. Still, you want to spread your damage out regardless, although you'll get more sinkings with TMO on some ships just by destroying one damage zone. Shot placement can be important, each damage zone can have different effects. Hit a turrent, the mag may explode, hit engines you can slow or stop a ship. Most mods set a weaker damage zone on the keel, so after 43 that's good. The right shot may blow off the ships prop. I once blew the rudder off a Fuso and it couldn't turn, so the group went one way the Fuso went the other and stayed in a straight line for over 400nms until it ran into land.

The game doe's provide internal and external cargo for many merchants such as oil, fuel, ammo, ammo crates, etc...If a merchant is carrying ammo of fuel one torp usually results in a mass explosion sinking the ship. If a ship has ammo or fuel it increases the blast zone. I've sunk one loaded merchant with fuel and the explosion blew up nearby ships many times, which blew up nearby ships. I've seen as many as 6 ships domino explode from using one torp on one ship. If you time it right you can take out many ships, but you only get credit for the one you hit with a torp. Course it's always fun to time a torp to hit a loaded merchant when a escort is passing by, least the escort is gone even if you don't get credit.

06-12-11, 12:02 PM	#1
ddiplock Samurai Navy Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 552 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Quick question about spreads Is the offset angle dial in the US TDC the best way of setting a torpedo spread? So, you'd set an offset angle of say 4 or 5 degrees to left/right depending on the direction of the target in your scope. So if they are sailing to the right in your scope, you set the angle to the right, and left you set the angle to the left and such. Just trying to figure out how to get my torpedoes to hit ALONG the target rather than kinda in the same area

06-12-11, 02:57 PM	#2
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	You can use the gyro angle offset dial for this but it is so range sensitive that it's difficult. The longer the range the smaller the offset must be. Once you get use to it, it works pretty good. Your example for 4 or 5° would be for very close targets, more like 1 or 2° would be the norm. If I am using this method I will lock the target and shoot stern to bow -1, 0 and +1° or whatever is needed. At longer ranges 0.5° may be necessary. I do this when I don't want to leave the scope up for a long time. A better way to shoot a spread is to first take a final range and bearing measurement. Second turn off the PK, unlock the target and move the scope to a positing slightly ahead of the bow and send range/bearing to TDC and then shoot as the ship crosses the wire shooting bow to stern. The scope is up for a long time so you have to consider the conditions at the time. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

06-13-11, 03:54 PM	#5
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	No, the real submariners used slide rules not available to us. It was easy for them and difficult for us. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

06-14-11, 11:51 AM	#7
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	That's fine but the tick marks on your periscope are different angular sizes for different screen resolutions. Once you know what they are for your computer, you can do this. On the real periscope, different sets of eyes did not change the angular size of the ticks. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

06-15-11, 11:04 AM	#10
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Yes, that will work fine and eliminate any error-ridden calculations that tend to muddy up the waters and cause misses. In other words, sight the bow on the centerline and read off the heading. Quickly sight the stern and note that heading. The difference between the two is the angular size of the target. Now you can use that to figure your spread. Lets say the target is 3 degrees long. A 100% spread would start out at -1.5 degrees from the MOT (middle of target) and end at +1.5 degrees, or the other way around according to what your intended result is, maximally or minimally divergent spread. I generally shoot a 75% spread, so I would go +1 degree, -1 degree, which is really a 66% spread. Close enough for government work! __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

06-13-11, 12:50 PM	#4
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	I too am curious about using spread shots, since as many skippers, I am not used to use this. Isn't there a simple way to more-or-less use the offset dial? I mean, In a simple way to put it: how much angle (number of degrees) should I offset a shot every, say, 1000 meters or so?

06-14-11, 01:53 PM	#8
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Thanks TorpX!

06-20-11, 04:19 PM	#11
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	By now I have already tried spreading my shots a bit. It's a good tactic, several hits in different places appears to be a deadlier procedure. However, it only works if you're sure your calculations are VERY correct and the fire solution indeed does bring your torps in the very middle of the ship. Otherwise, If you made some slight errors here and there, you will have, say, 1 hit and 3-5 misses where, without spreading, all torps would hit, even it in the extremity of the bow or stern.

06-21-11, 10:41 AM	#12
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	Spreading your torps is not a "complete" solution. As you've found out, spreading increases your chance of getting a hit, but also increases your chances of missing with some of the torps. If you could be sure of a 100% correct firing solution, you might never need to use a spread. The usual USN method was to use a spread, but not always. I remember reading O'Kane saying once on Wahoo, they fired their last two torpedos on a small freighter, both at the middle. (Morton wanted no cripples.) Also, I should point out that if you use RFB, you will probably want to use spreads as the damage model works on the basis of flooding compartments, not just a hit point total.

06-22-11, 03:30 PM	#15
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	We all shoot spreads, but I prefer to use the stad to get everything plotted, then I'll unlock and shoot by the wire forward to rear, other times I set my spreads by changing enemy speed slightly by .5 to 3 kts because of the enemies ability to stop and speed to flank on a dime I react more to that than the actual setup. WIth M18's I tend to use the spread wheel since they can't see the wake. As stated damage zones are more or an issue with either mod, although RFB is a lil more realistic with NSM. Still, you want to spread your damage out regardless, although you'll get more sinkings with TMO on some ships just by destroying one damage zone. Shot placement can be important, each damage zone can have different effects. Hit a turrent, the mag may explode, hit engines you can slow or stop a ship. Most mods set a weaker damage zone on the keel, so after 43 that's good. The right shot may blow off the ships prop. I once blew the rudder off a Fuso and it couldn't turn, so the group went one way the Fuso went the other and stayed in a straight line for over 400nms until it ran into land. The game doe's provide internal and external cargo for many merchants such as oil, fuel, ammo, ammo crates, etc...If a merchant is carrying ammo of fuel one torp usually results in a mass explosion sinking the ship. If a ship has ammo or fuel it increases the blast zone. I've sunk one loaded merchant with fuel and the explosion blew up nearby ships many times, which blew up nearby ships. I've seen as many as 6 ships domino explode from using one torp on one ship. If you time it right you can take out many ships, but you only get credit for the one you hit with a torp. Course it's always fun to time a torp to hit a loaded merchant when a escort is passing by, least the escort is gone even if you don't get credit.