Oh Boy - This One Is Above My Pay Grade

Anthony W. · 05-09-11, 04:55 PM

In all my careers, I haven't been involved in any warship engagements - other than escorted convoys.

Well - it's finally happening. I've ran smack dab into the Battle of the Philippine Sea - and I've already been spotted.

I'm currently at 450ft below the surface, sneaking by destroyers.

It looks like I'll be forced to launch with no visual contact.

I couldn't manage to approach from the front like I wanted to (big guns started lobbing 16 inchers at me from a few miles out), so as for tactics I'm at a loss.

Any suggestions?

WernherVonTrapp · 05-09-11, 06:05 PM

Well, hopefully the seas are rough. That will help mask your getaway or approach. I would try to gain some perspective of their course and speed and then come up to PD and sink the closest target with the highest probability of success. The fact that they caught you off guard means you're going to have to make due with your current ambush position, leaving you some, but little other choice.

Be ready to stay submerged for a while, depending on your current location, since there are 3 separate TFs that will be approaching and then departing the area. If you have to, you can actually back away from a target using either "back slow" or "back standard". This maintains your boats blading relative to the TF and any approaching DDs. I've also found that it seems a little harder for the DDs to hear you when you back away, as opposed to turning around, which you can do later anyway when sufficient distance is gained.
Good luck sir.

magic452 · 05-09-11, 07:57 PM

If you've gained a reasonably good position Werneher's advice is good.
If the TF is zig zagging than you may be able to do a runaround and get a better position.

As far as backing out goes I do this any time I use the bow tubes.
Since you can't use the Knotometer to set reverse speeds I have set Back 1/3 to 1 knot, Back 2/3 to 3 knots. Works like a charm.

Magic

Platapus · 05-10-11, 05:52 AM

Surface and use your deck guns.

It will be the last thing they would expect and you would have the element of surprise.

Seriously, good luck and please let us know how your attack goes.

Anthony W. · 05-10-11, 06:59 AM

Theres a heavy cruiser passing overhead - it doesn't look like the destroyers know where I am - so I don't know if its a coincidence or what. Heres hoping for no depth charges

Daniel Prates · 05-10-11, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Surface and use your deck guns.

It will be the last thing they would expect and you would have the element of surprise.

Seriously, good luck and please let us know how your attack goes.

haha! Great!

Its just like the tiny little schnauzer that engaged a rottwailer in combat. The schauzer actually won, chocking the bigger dog to death... while being eaten.

Platapus · 05-10-11, 06:02 PM

I did not say my "plan" was perfect.

Anthony W. · 05-10-11, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I did not say my "plan" was perfect.

But its the one I went with - I put about 5 torpedoes into Yamato as she passed to my starboard - eventually she lagged 20 miles behind the rest, but was about 50 yards out of torpedo range and getting away, so I came to surface and closed

Took a hit right on the nose - but flooding was contained - so I dove and sank it with my last 2 torpedoes

Daniel Prates · 05-12-11, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

Took a hit right on the nose - but flooding was contained - so I dove and sank it with my last 2 torpedoes

From what i've seen, capital ships always shoot at you with their secondary guns. I've never seen they bear the main weapons on small targets.

Yamato had 18' guns, didnt' she? If primary guns were fired upon you, we all know what that would mean.... ouch!

Platapus · 05-14-11, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

From what i've seen, capital ships always shoot at you with their secondary guns. I've never seen they bear the main weapons on small targets.

Yamato had 18' guns, didnt' she? If primary guns were fired upon you, we all know what that would mean.... ouch!

Considering that the secondary armament of the Yamato was 6.1 inch guns and 5 inch guns. I don't think she would have to use her main guns. Ouch

Especially when she had six 6.1 inch guns and Twenty-four 5 inch guns!

She could probably take out a sub just with her One-Hundred and Sixty-Two 25mm AAA guns.

Torplexed · 05-14-11, 12:23 PM

Accounts of the battle of Leyte Gulf suggest that possibly a few of Yamato's 18 inch shells punched through some of the American destroyers without exploding. The fuze delays on Japanese shells were literally ten times longer than in most foreign fuzes. That greatly increases the chances for through-and-throughs if you don't hit something solid. Still having a 14, 16 or 18 inch diameter object weighing 1800 to 3400 pounds, plow thru your ship even with out detonating, could mess you up badly. However, being able to train massive 18 inch batteries on a target as small as a submarine would be exceedingly difficult. That what quick-firing secondary batteries were designed for.

Stealhead · 05-14-11, 03:11 PM

True but from a realistic standpoint even a shell hit from a 3 or 4 inch gun against a submarine is very bad news indeed and a 5,6,or 8 inch shell would do very serious damage if not fatal damage its hull wold be completely compromised.

A reason why one should pull the plug well away form a task force in clear weather conditions I would avoid getting within 12,000 yds of a task force when fully on the surface in good conditions just to be sure they don't see me.Get a good course plot and observe them for an hour or so if possible then set your self up to be in a good position you will have to run at flank speeds for a few hours if it is a faster force but the extra hours of plotting will help you out and allow you to attack at a better time like a night.Just saying these things as it seems that Anthony might have rushed in a little bit.Don't let the excitement of a task force overwhelm you track them well on radar and take the time to get well ahead for a better attack submarine warfare is about being patient and the art of course plotting can take some time but the rewards are worth it.

Daniel Prates · 05-14-11, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Accounts of the battle of Leyte Gulf suggest that possibly a few of Yamato's 18 inch shells punched through some of the American destroyers without exploding. The fuze delays on Japanese shells were literally ten times longer than in most foreign fuzes. That greatly increases the chances for through-and-throughs if you don't hit something solid. Still having a 14, 16 or 18 inch diameter object weighing 1800 to 3400 pounds, plow thru your ship even with out detonating, could mess you up badly. However, being able to train massive 18 inch batteries on a target as small as a submarine would be exceedingly difficult. That what quick-firing secondary batteries were designed for.

Interesting that this considerations are somewhat similar to the 'stopping-power' issues reagarding pistol and revolver ammo.

magic452 · 05-14-11, 07:08 PM

I agree with Stealhead here, I think half the fun is tracking and siting up really good shots. You get into good position at the right time and the sinking of IJN ships all but takes care of itself. I've chased convoys and TFs hundred of miles just to get that perfect shot at the perfect time.

Magic

Stealhead · 05-14-11, 08:37 PM

Another reason good tracking is very useful is that often task forces and even convoys will change course and if you went in really quickly you may end up in what you think is the ideal position only to have the whole thing change course like going from heading S to heading E if you track well and get into a good spot you will see the change in course in time to react to it effectively.

The best benefit of good tracking/plotting to me is observing the escorts once you figure out their pattern on the radar scopes and your plotting method(varies greatly how this is done map contact on/of etc.) you can set yourself to be in the best spot when the escorts are least likely to find you.

05-09-11, 04:55 PM	#1
Anthony W. Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 850 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	Oh Boy - This One Is Above My Pay Grade In all my careers, I haven't been involved in any warship engagements - other than escorted convoys. Well - it's finally happening. I've ran smack dab into the Battle of the Philippine Sea - and I've already been spotted. I'm currently at 450ft below the surface, sneaking by destroyers. It looks like I'll be forced to launch with no visual contact. I couldn't manage to approach from the front like I wanted to (big guns started lobbing 16 inchers at me from a few miles out), so as for tactics I'm at a loss. Any suggestions? __________________ Sunken Mustangs Proud Ford Mustang owner "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" - Admiral David Farragut Run silent - run deep - keep the baffles clear - targets front and center. Private pilot and history buff

05-09-11, 06:05 PM	#2
WernherVonTrapp Admiral Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Now, alot farther from NYC. Posts: 2,228 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	Well, hopefully the seas are rough. That will help mask your getaway or approach. I would try to gain some perspective of their course and speed and then come up to PD and sink the closest target with the highest probability of success. The fact that they caught you off guard means you're going to have to make due with your current ambush position, leaving you some, but little other choice. Be ready to stay submerged for a while, depending on your current location, since there are 3 separate TFs that will be approaching and then departing the area. If you have to, you can actually back away from a target using either "back slow" or "back standard". This maintains your boats blading relative to the TF and any approaching DDs. I've also found that it seems a little harder for the DDs to hear you when you back away, as opposed to turning around, which you can do later anyway when sufficient distance is gained. Good luck sir. __________________ "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -Miyamoto Musashi ------------------------------------------------------- "What is truth?" -Pontius Pilate

05-09-11, 07:57 PM	#3
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	If you've gained a reasonably good position Werneher's advice is good. If the TF is zig zagging than you may be able to do a runaround and get a better position. As far as backing out goes I do this any time I use the bow tubes. Since you can't use the Knotometer to set reverse speeds I have set Back 1/3 to 1 knot, Back 2/3 to 3 knots. Works like a charm. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

05-10-11, 05:52 AM	#4
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,362 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Surface and use your deck guns. It will be the last thing they would expect and you would have the element of surprise. Seriously, good luck and please let us know how your attack goes. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

05-10-11, 06:59 AM	#5
Anthony W. Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 850 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	Theres a heavy cruiser passing overhead - it doesn't look like the destroyers know where I am - so I don't know if its a coincidence or what. Heres hoping for no depth charges __________________ Sunken Mustangs Proud Ford Mustang owner "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" - Admiral David Farragut Run silent - run deep - keep the baffles clear - targets front and center. Private pilot and history buff

05-10-11, 06:02 PM	#7
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,362 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I did not say my "plan" was perfect. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

05-14-11, 12:23 PM	#11
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Accounts of the battle of Leyte Gulf suggest that possibly a few of Yamato's 18 inch shells punched through some of the American destroyers without exploding. The fuze delays on Japanese shells were literally ten times longer than in most foreign fuzes. That greatly increases the chances for through-and-throughs if you don't hit something solid. Still having a 14, 16 or 18 inch diameter object weighing 1800 to 3400 pounds, plow thru your ship even with out detonating, could mess you up badly. However, being able to train massive 18 inch batteries on a target as small as a submarine would be exceedingly difficult. That what quick-firing secondary batteries were designed for. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

05-14-11, 03:11 PM	#12
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	True but from a realistic standpoint even a shell hit from a 3 or 4 inch gun against a submarine is very bad news indeed and a 5,6,or 8 inch shell would do very serious damage if not fatal damage its hull wold be completely compromised. A reason why one should pull the plug well away form a task force in clear weather conditions I would avoid getting within 12,000 yds of a task force when fully on the surface in good conditions just to be sure they don't see me.Get a good course plot and observe them for an hour or so if possible then set your self up to be in a good position you will have to run at flank speeds for a few hours if it is a faster force but the extra hours of plotting will help you out and allow you to attack at a better time like a night.Just saying these things as it seems that Anthony might have rushed in a little bit.Don't let the excitement of a task force overwhelm you track them well on radar and take the time to get well ahead for a better attack submarine warfare is about being patient and the art of course plotting can take some time but the rewards are worth it.

05-14-11, 07:08 PM	#14
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I agree with Stealhead here, I think half the fun is tracking and siting up really good shots. You get into good position at the right time and the sinking of IJN ships all but takes care of itself. I've chased convoys and TFs hundred of miles just to get that perfect shot at the perfect time. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

05-14-11, 08:37 PM	#15
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Another reason good tracking is very useful is that often task forces and even convoys will change course and if you went in really quickly you may end up in what you think is the ideal position only to have the whole thing change course like going from heading S to heading E if you track well and get into a good spot you will see the change in course in time to react to it effectively. The best benefit of good tracking/plotting to me is observing the escorts once you figure out their pattern on the radar scopes and your plotting method(varies greatly how this is done map contact on/of etc.) you can set yourself to be in the best spot when the escorts are least likely to find you.