Bin Laden is dead, official

[MaddogK]

I wanna see Bin Ladens dialysis machines .

For someone with kidney failure, and never leaves his home those EXPENSIVE machines gotta be somewhere on site, right ?

[tater]

Originally Posted by August

Who came up with the 1 million figure? Is it based at all on actual cost or is it more like a "million dollar haircut"?

I think you are right. The press is simply doing what they do... Making stuff up.

[MaddogK]

Originally Posted by tater

I think you are right. The press is simply doing what they do... Making stuff up.

Could be...
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...b81332d190b7e6

[Gerald]

This type of speculation that "he" is or not, is so completely insane that he is in hell laughing at this, the mission is accomplished, moreover, it is bad for morale, but these kinds of excesses.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by razark

Of course, some people will never be convinced. There are people that seem to thrive off of disbelieving anything the government claims.

And othger püeople will always be convinced, no matter what. They thrive of belief even when not a single evidence is there and the one "evidence" having been given is a confirmed forgery and even meanwhilke has been withdrawn from publication, if I understand it correctly.

It was claimed by Pentagon employees that there is indeed photography that could serve as evidence for the events yesterday night. If it indeed is that, all speculations could bed ended immediately when releasing it. Just giving excuses for why it is not being released, just feeds speculations.

Believing on the basis of confirmed forgery and nothingness, is no virtue. Not even a sign of cleverness.

I'm the first to welcome the confirmation of BL's end. My fiorst posting in thios thread expressed cheers and congratuilations. The doubts I got when realising how thin the "evidence" given so far really is. Maybe it nevertheless is true. But it cold also be that it all is just a staged event to give Obama a boost in a time of national crisis. These doubts are legitimiate, and well-founded so far: no proof, just a forged photo, and claims - nothing else so far. It is not the same like doubting the landing on the moon.

If I have learned one thing in life, it is to never trust or respect politics and that politicians and ideologic leaders alike stop short of nothing if it serves their interest.

The excuses for a much bigger operation like the Vietnam war or the Iraq war, were staged. The excuse for the German attack on Poland, was staged. How much easier must it be to stage the "evidence" for a small and limited operation like two helicopters full of troops killing one person?

[Growler]

Apply Occam's Razor, Sky.

The simplest theory is that the news is true as they tell it; the next level of complexity is that the news is true as they tell it, with the additional weight of new data changing or superseding previous editions. From there, things become ever more complicated as more variations and theories work their way into it, making it more difficult to prove satisfactorily; such ad hoc hypotheses only cloud the issue further by adding unnecessary layers of obfuscation to the story.

[flatsixes]

I would not release the death photo. Why give his followers anything useful to recruit more murderous zealots? To "prove" to the inevitable unbelievers and conspiracy whacks on the fringe that the U.S. did what it said it did? Nonsense. You will never satisfy that crowd, so move past it. If OBL is really still alive, and just off somewhere bowling with Elvis, we'll read about it soon enough in The New York Times and Der Spiegel courtesy of Wikileaks. That f*cker is dead, and I feel fine.

[Gerald]

I personally have never trusted what is written, one must always "read between the lines, and if I want Information it does it through other channels, some newspapers want to sell, and that in many cases, so they do not have that much information , and right now there is a drought in this state if previous OBL, precisely because the authorities did not release as much or nothing right now .. and then, speculation and utter bitches into the picture, the day will come very soon as more card comes up on the table

[Growler]

Originally Posted by Vendor

I personally have never trusted what is written, one must always "read between the lines, and if I want Information it does it through other channels, some newspapers want to sell, and that in many cases, so they do not have that much information , and right now there is a drought in this state if previous OBL, precisely because the authorities did not release as much or nothing right now .. and then, speculation and utter bitches into the picture, the day will come very soon as more card comes up on the table

Forgive me, my thinking, and as a consequence, my ability to articulate those thoughts, is a bit muddled.

I'm not advocating blind acceptance of the story - in my opinion, that's as bad as blindly rejecting the story. What I am advocating is a process of reasoned thought and critical thinking instead of needlessly complicating a story with diversionary thoughts.

[Biggles]

Osama is dead or captured/soon dead. There is no way that they'd publish news of his demise and funeral at sea if there was even a glimmer of a chance for him to contact the outer world and prove them wrong. That would be the death sentence of any government, and noone is foolish enough to take that risk.

[Onkel Neal]

What the US should have done: well prior to capturing Osama, or killing him, they should have fenced off several hundred acres in central Afghanistan, some area that is easy to access. They should have constructed a huge concrete mausoleum, and then kept it secret and guarded until the day the got Obama, er, Osama, sorry. Then they could bury Osama's body in the mausoleum and annouced out of respect to Islam, they would allow a pilgrimage one time a year.




Then after the 4th or 5th year when the attendance was really high, blow up the shrine and all the supporters in attendance.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Growler

Apply Occam's Razor, Sky.

Ah haha, at least you know me well enough to know what is the most promising way to get me on the train.

It's just that we do not talk about rational scientific methodology and theory-building here, but irrational political interest-securing.

I expect that within the next 1-3 days they will release pohotos of the dead body that in any way make clear the identity of the dead body, and the time when it was shot. To hell with sentim,ents in the Muslim world that will cook up over this, if the story is true like it is being told, it is more important to kill the - so far very legitimate - doubts in their cradle. If hysterics think that this is a reason why their red-faced skulls must burst open again like popcorn, who cares. Every burst religious hysteric's head makes the world a slightly friendlier place to live in.

What I want is just this: a clearance of the the issue, an evidecnce beyond doubt. Not this unripe hear-say and forged material there is until now. As I saids, to 70% I assume it is trtue (I assume, I do not know so far), to 20% I think BL has been dead since longer time, and to 10% I think he still lives and just any nobody got killed yesterday, a double. We know that BL had several doubles.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Growler

Forgive me, my thinking, and as a consequence, my ability to articulate those thoughts, is a bit muddled.

I'm not advocating blind acceptance of the story - in my opinion, that's as bad as blindly rejecting the story. What I am advocating is a process of reasoned thought and critical thinking instead of needlessly complicating a story with diversionary thoughts.

No, I understand you, it's okay, my post was from my point of reference, what you say here is relevant in many ways, especially how opionen generally perceive this, which of course is a science .... almost

[Skybird]

I also say that it is hilarious what debates are now being waged over the morality of killing Bin Laden and whether or not it is legitimate for a democracy to kill an enemy. Every Western government kills when the police hunts down a gangster and he starts to shoot at the police. But one of the worst gangster of the past two decade suddenly should represent the exception? Democracies have the right to kill their enemies in self-defence or prevention of these enemies committing such disastrous crimes like Al Quaeda did. It needs a truly decadent society to start a debate about the legality of this, really.

[MaddogK]

Prolly had one of these new machines installed on U.S.S. Carl Vinson at the last refit, because they knew already that the HVT at that compound was Bin Laden:

Typical lab-based DNA matching tests like this can take up to 14 days; they're painstaking and need to be repeated several times to ensure the sample's not contaminated from any other DNA sources. But that's not necessarily the only way to do these tests: late in 2010, a University of Arizona team presented research on a machine that can do the analysis in just two hours in a largely automated way. It's possible that knowing they were engaged on a mission to capture bin Laden, U.S. forces arranged for access to a machine like this to be on quick alert — probably for flying blood, cheek cells, and other samples taken from the body to the lab for expedited analysis.

...then they buried him at sea within 24 hours with full Muslim respects.

I also heard they stripped all the computers of hard drives when they we're in the compound those 40 minutes, I wonder if they took the time to look for hidden rooms and such. We may never know as the compound was on fire when the teams left.