[WIP] Online AOB Trainer

aergistal · 04-23-11, 09:40 AM

AOB Trainer
Online widget to improve your AOB estimation
URL: http://comsubpac.webatu.com/aob/

Features:
- full 360° sweep
- AOB dial control

To do:
- add a button to show how the ship would actually look like with your estimated AOB (probably in new tab)

Positions in 0-90 Starboard coming soon!

I'm currently testing it in different browsers. Any suggestions on how to improve it?

aergistal · 04-23-11, 10:45 AM

Test link:
http://comsubpac.webatu.com/aob/

Positions in the 0-90° Starboard range are underway and won't show up for now.

virtualpender · 04-23-11, 10:49 AM

Wow this is really cool! It seems to be calculating incorrectly though - the measures should be 180 port or starboard, not all the way through 360. And it should start at 0 where you have 180. Great idea though and I hope you make those corrections so it displays correctly.

Thank you!

aergistal · 04-23-11, 10:53 AM

Hmm, where is it displaying values greater than 180?
In my browsers it shows 0-180 Port/Starboard...

What OS/Browser are you using?

edit: There's a html display problem with Opera as usual. Fixing it... But the values are correct.

virtualpender · 04-23-11, 10:56 AM

You're right - it isn't displaying greater than 180. You just need to reverse where you have 0 and 180. The 180 should be at top and the 0 should be at bottom. Then it will be correct.

Sorry for the confusion!

aergistal · 04-23-11, 11:07 AM

Thank you for the feedback, thought I'm afraid I don't see how it's wrong?

If the ship is directly in front of you and coming towards you, isn't the AOB 0?

CapnScurvy · 04-23-11, 11:10 AM

Works OK for me. Using Explorer 9 through a Vista 32 OS.

Great work!! I've often noticed that the hardest AoB position to estimate is between the 5 and 40 degree angles. This can make it easier to estimate those angles when you need to figure an estimate for an intercept course. Good job aergistal!!

aergistal · 04-23-11, 11:12 AM

Thank you, CapnScurvy!

I wanted to implement an accuracy meter too but I'm not sure what the threshold value should be. What error angle (difference between estimated and actual) would be considered 0 accuracy?

CapnScurvy · 04-23-11, 11:47 AM

In my opinion, the critical error difference is determined by the range between you and the target. At close range you can be off quite a bit (say 5 to 10 degrees) and still get a good firing solution. At greater distances a couple degree error will really throw off the figures. I have never tried to see how much. That's why you need to make several estimates as the target/sub decrease their range separation.

By looking at your trainer, the Nagara Maru is close. So, I'm thinking a 4 or 6 degree difference could be tolerated for a good firing solution.

virtualpender · 04-23-11, 12:56 PM

I see why I was misunderstanding. The dial is just used for entering the measurement and isn't a true representation of the AOB. I'm used to playing with an Is-Was so I guess that is why this wasn't immediately intuitive to me.

Sorry for my faulty feedback. This is a very useful tool.

TorpX · 04-23-11, 02:47 PM

@aergistal:

Have you tried Gutted's Solution Solver? It has a training mode which has the same purpose. It might be worthwhile to use this and see what improvements you could come up with.

I would suggest incorporating some feature where the time of day, range, and type of ship could be varied. The last two are most important. Estimating the Aob becomes more difficult when one cannot see details of the mast work and superstructure.

As far as "acceptable error" is concerned, this is largely dependent on the track angle of your shot. In a "down the throat" shot a difference of 3 deg. and 5 deg. could be very serious, but for a "normal" shot a difference of 90 deg. and 100 deg. would be of little significance.

sin 3 vs. sin 5 produces an error of 40%
sin 90 vs. sin 100 produces an error of 1.5%

razark · 04-23-11, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

In my opinion, the critical error difference is determined by the range between you and the target. At close range you can be off quite a bit (say 5 to 10 degrees) and still get a good firing solution....
By looking at your trainer, the Nagara Maru is close.

Is there any way a range option could b e added? For example, a short/medium/long range selection?

I'm goin' down · 04-23-11, 04:44 PM

I do not intend to rain on anyone's parade (other than TorpX's), but gutted's Solution Solver program has something quite similar. It has been on the market for a couple of years.

With a periscope view in the Solution Solver, as the ship is rotated the Aob view along with the readings change accordingly. This is a stand alone program. Using the EASY Aob mod, you can obtain the target's course, plug it into the Solution Solver, calculate the Aob, calculate how many degrees you must turn your boat to be on a 90 degree intercept bearing (if that is what you want), and calculate the lead angle for fast or slow torpedoes. It is the whole kit and kaboodle.

Note, you must calculate the target's speed and can do so using the program options or by regular methods. And the program will provide you the lead angle at any Aob, and will calculate the firing point for fore and aft tubes.

aergistal · 04-25-11, 07:41 AM

Thanks for pointing it out! I wasn't aware there is such a tool already.

Anyway, to make it useful I'll try to add an on-demand overlay with the actual AOB on top of your guess. That way you could spot the visual difference too.

Regarding different ships, range, time of day and weather, I'm planning to add this as an AOB trainer withing the game's Museum section, but in SH5 since it allows such scripting.

BillBam · 04-25-11, 07:57 AM

Solution Solver is a good tool, but the more we have the better. Good job on this one. In the book "Wahoo" Dick O'Kane spend many hours judging AOB through the scope and this tool allows for the same practice.

We have many tools and mods that overlap in this game, each having their own uniqueness!

04-23-11, 09:40 AM	#1
aergistal Chief Join Date: May 2010 Location: France Posts: 326 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 1	[WIP] Online AOB Trainer AOB Trainer Online widget to improve your AOB estimation URL: http://comsubpac.webatu.com/aob/ Features: - full 360° sweep - AOB dial control To do: - add a button to show how the ship would actually look like with your estimated AOB (probably in new tab) Positions in 0-90 Starboard coming soon! I'm currently testing it in different browsers. Any suggestions on how to improve it? Last edited by aergistal; 04-23-11 at 11:17 AM.

04-23-11, 02:47 PM	#11
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	@aergistal: Have you tried Gutted's Solution Solver? It has a training mode which has the same purpose. It might be worthwhile to use this and see what improvements you could come up with. I would suggest incorporating some feature where the time of day, range, and type of ship could be varied. The last two are most important. Estimating the Aob becomes more difficult when one cannot see details of the mast work and superstructure. As far as "acceptable error" is concerned, this is largely dependent on the track angle of your shot. In a "down the throat" shot a difference of 3 deg. and 5 deg. could be very serious, but for a "normal" shot a difference of 90 deg. and 100 deg. would be of little significance. sin 3 vs. sin 5 produces an error of 40% sin 90 vs. sin 100 produces an error of 1.5%

04-23-11, 04:44 PM	#13
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	I do not intend to rain on anyone's parade (other than TorpX's), but gutted's Solution Solver program has something quite similar. It has been on the market for a couple of years. With a periscope view in the Solution Solver, as the ship is rotated the Aob view along with the readings change accordingly. This is a stand alone program. Using the EASY Aob mod, you can obtain the target's course, plug it into the Solution Solver, calculate the Aob, calculate how many degrees you must turn your boat to be on a 90 degree intercept bearing (if that is what you want), and calculate the lead angle for fast or slow torpedoes. It is the whole kit and kaboodle. Note, you must calculate the target's speed and can do so using the program options or by regular methods. And the program will provide you the lead angle at any Aob, and will calculate the firing point for fore and aft tubes. Last edited by I'm goin' down; 04-23-11 at 09:56 PM.

04-25-11, 07:57 AM	#15
BillBam Watch Officer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Yuba/Sutter, CA Posts: 347 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Solution Solver is a good tool, but the more we have the better. Good job on this one. In the book "Wahoo" Dick O'Kane spend many hours judging AOB through the scope and this tool allows for the same practice. We have many tools and mods that overlap in this game, each having their own uniqueness! __________________

04-23-11, 10:45 AM	#2
aergistal Chief Join Date: May 2010 Location: France Posts: 326 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 1	Test link: http://comsubpac.webatu.com/aob/ Positions in the 0-90° Starboard range are underway and won't show up for now.

04-23-11, 10:49 AM	#3
virtualpender Sonar Guy Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 381 Downloads: 281 Uploads: 0	Wow this is really cool! It seems to be calculating incorrectly though - the measures should be 180 port or starboard, not all the way through 360. And it should start at 0 where you have 180. Great idea though and I hope you make those corrections so it displays correctly. Thank you!

04-23-11, 10:53 AM	#4
aergistal Chief Join Date: May 2010 Location: France Posts: 326 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 1	Hmm, where is it displaying values greater than 180? In my browsers it shows 0-180 Port/Starboard... What OS/Browser are you using? edit: There's a html display problem with Opera as usual. Fixing it... But the values are correct.

04-23-11, 10:56 AM	#5
virtualpender Sonar Guy Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 381 Downloads: 281 Uploads: 0	You're right - it isn't displaying greater than 180. You just need to reverse where you have 0 and 180. The 180 should be at top and the 0 should be at bottom. Then it will be correct. Sorry for the confusion!

04-23-11, 11:07 AM	#6
aergistal Chief Join Date: May 2010 Location: France Posts: 326 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 1	Thank you for the feedback, thought I'm afraid I don't see how it's wrong? If the ship is directly in front of you and coming towards you, isn't the AOB 0?

04-23-11, 11:12 AM	#8
aergistal Chief Join Date: May 2010 Location: France Posts: 326 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 1	Thank you, CapnScurvy! I wanted to implement an accuracy meter too but I'm not sure what the threshold value should be. What error angle (difference between estimated and actual) would be considered 0 accuracy?

04-23-11, 12:56 PM	#10
virtualpender Sonar Guy Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 381 Downloads: 281 Uploads: 0	I see why I was misunderstanding. The dial is just used for entering the measurement and isn't a true representation of the AOB. I'm used to playing with an Is-Was so I guess that is why this wasn't immediately intuitive to me. Sorry for my faulty feedback. This is a very useful tool.

04-25-11, 07:41 AM	#14
aergistal Chief Join Date: May 2010 Location: France Posts: 326 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 1	Thanks for pointing it out! I wasn't aware there is such a tool already. Anyway, to make it useful I'll try to add an on-demand overlay with the actual AOB on top of your guess. That way you could spot the visual difference too. Regarding different ships, range, time of day and weather, I'm planning to add this as an AOB trainer withing the game's Museum section, but in SH5 since it allows such scripting.