US should stay out of land wars: Defense Secretary Robert Gates

[Castout]

So is he saying Iraq is a mistake [but a worthy mistake while Afghanistan is not a worthy one]?

Is there any irrefutable proof that Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda was directly behind 9/11?

I mean Gaddafi is also saying AL-Qaeda to be responsible with the uprising in his country.

Or that wikileaks a terrorist organization? Terrorism is a convenient excuse these days huh?!

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Castout

Is there any irrefutable proof that Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda was directly behind 9/11?

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plannin...ber_11_attacks

[stabiz]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

That coming from a French General....who would have never marched in Paris again if not(in large part, not forgetting other Allies who saved France) for Americans.Unwarranted arrogance by the French, typical.

What is the first thing they teach new recruits in the French Army? How to say "I surrender" in German.(old one, but a good one)

Meh, historically the French have the right to be arrogant. You dont have to be a history buff to know the French can fight.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plannin...ber_11_attacks

Umm nice story but it's still a story until proven in court of law.

So who have been charged for conceiving, planning, funding, plotting and carrying out 9/11?

I'm just saying that reaction to 9/11 may have been blown out of proportion and without any real sense of direction and goal. More than 9 years and 2 wars later Osama Bin Laden whereabout is never clear and Al-Qaeda remains mostly spoken about instead seen.

Now I just hope the implication of these 2 wars would not reduce US capability to project and commit to war when war MUST be fought. Otherwise if I were Osama I'd say now is the time for another big attack or some belligerent nation to gamble on the notion that US is so hesitant to commit a new war. But ultimately I must admit each nation in the end is fully responsible and must be capable of defending its own country without outside help. I'm referring to South Korea and the probability of escalated tension from the part of North Korea.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Castout

Umm nice story but it's still a story until proven in court of law.

So who have been charged for conceiving, planning, funding, plotting and carrying out 9/11?

Never thought you for a truther, Castout. I learn something new here every day.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

That coming from a French General....who would have never marched in Paris again if not(in large part, not forgetting other Allies who saved France) for Americans.Unwarranted arrogance by the French, typical.

What is the first thing they teach new recruits in the French Army? How to say "I surrender" in German.(old one, but a good one)

You know what the french say : we love to hate americans. Its a love hate kind of relationship.
Maybe its because we are so similar at a deep level.
And for the record, were it not for french troups, you would still be a british colony. But I suppose the first thing you americans learn in school is that you gained the independence all by yourselves.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by goldorak

But I suppose the first thing you americans learn in school is that you gained the independence all by yourselves.

Generally, yes, that is what is taught in US schools, at least superficially. And as you said, the truth is, shall we say, far more complicated.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by goldorak

And for the record, were it not for french troups, you would still be a british colony. But I suppose the first thing you americans learn in school is that you gained the independence all by yourselves.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Generally, yes, that is what is taught in US schools, at least superficially. And as you said, the truth is, shall we say, far more complicated.

And don't forget Cuba/Spain. They also helped us in the revolutionary war.

We had a lotta help.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Never thought you for a truther, Castout. I learn something new here every day.

I'm not I just like to keep my mind open. In the past I had fallen to severe deception. I've learned that most people would lie easily without guilt given pressure or not. As a foreigner I'm concerned about US reduced capability, perceived or real, to project power which would mean potential instability anywhere in the world including Asia. And the war in Iraq and Afghanistan have certainly contributed to that and the demise of the economy by putting strain on the budget which has the direct consequence to weaken US ability and willingness to project power in the near future especially ground war.

[krashkart]

I think de Gaulle was predicting that the US would make many (if not all) of the same mistakes that great empires tend to make. And he was right.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by goldorak

But I suppose the first thing you americans learn in school is that you gained the independence all by yourselves.

I recall in school the French mentioned in our American History class when discussing the Revolution.

My teacher taught us to be thankful for the French supplied cutlery we used to gut Red Coats, and the one Prussian who showed us how to use them.

[Ducimus]

Aside from what's already been said, I wonder how many of my countrymen realize that the Statue of Liberty, is from France.


Also have to add, you know the hatred of the French is all fine and dandy... but its gotten a bit old. We, the current generations of Americans, did not save France from anybody. They don't owe us a damn thing. How much longer are we going to ride on the coattails of our forebears trying to bask in something that our generations had nothing to do with?

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Aside from what's already been said, I wonder how many of my countrymen realize that the Statue of Liberty, is from France.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

How much longer are we going to ride on the coattails of our forebears trying to bask in something that our generations had nothing to do with?

That's an interesting statement, interesting because I concur and disagree at the same time. Conflicting...

I agree because the usual putdown from the US to anyone in Europe is "We won the war" or in particularly to the Allies "You would not have won the war without us." Of course this is equally right or wrong depending upon your view, the war would have ended, yes, but the whole of Europe would be in the Comintern. Some more right leaning people might argue it's there anyway, but I digress.
I disagree with you because there are still generations today, on this forum, who stood at the Fulda Gap and prevented the Soviet Union from doing something stupid, jsut as there were Soviets on the other side preventing us from being overconfident. Balance of power, something that has pretty much no meaning now the Cold war is over. Those people, who may have considered themselves in the arse end of the cold war, did a lot for the people of West Berlin who could have been shut down by the Soviets any time they wanted but for fear of military retaliation.
Post Cold War though, aside from KFOR, the US has remained out of European conflicts, primarily because at the moment there are none. If the time comes again and we do go into another conflict in Europe, will the US get involved again? Probably, yes, but like the Second World War and First World War, it will probably need a bit of spurring on to do so.

On the original topic at hand, it's a tricky one to rule on. The US is designed to fight a ground war, however it's not designed to fight one outside of Europe because with the exception of the Pacific theatre, that's where most of Americas most successful wars have been, and the United States forces spent sixty years preparing for war in the Fulda gap. The same could well be said for the British Armed Forces, although we had some previous experiences of the Middle East since we owned several parts of it once, and in hindsight really should not have let them go... It's a new era of warfare and we're only just beginning to adapt to it, which doubtless means that when the next era of warfare arrives (be it with China or whoever) we'll be caught off guard and need to adapt to that drumbeat.