The year of living dangerously: 1983

[CaptainHaplo]

Just goes to show God looks out for us - even those of yall who don't believe in him....

[Skybird]

Considering that man is made in His image, and looking at how messed up we are and mess up things around us, I only can hope there is some Über-Deity that looks after God.

Or in other words: when I don'T tell you there is a banana skin that I have placed myself there, and then offering you a hand for helping you back on your feet after you slipped on it, is not really a form of kindness, is it?

[Penguin]

Very interesting, will record it and watch later.
Sky, don't worry, when you post matrial from the public channels (ÖR's), they have no IP restrictions, accessible worldwide, unlike the damned british channels! However the footage is often only online for a limited amount of time.

I want to add, that the guy who made the documentation is not a historian, but a journalist. This doesn't say anything about the quality of it, but I'll never forget Knopp for using Panzer IV footage at a film about the attack on France . He said he used it for dramatization purposes...

I don't know what mindset you guys, who grew up in the 80s, have. For me and my friends it was always clear, that we could been wiped out at any time if some guys went insane. Maybe that's why we were called the No Future generation

I am really curious if more events like this come to light. I am sure this particular one is only the tip of the iceberg - though so far one of the most serious ones we know of.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Just goes to show God looks out for us - even those of yall who don't believe in him....

but he gave men free will

So I prefer to raise my glass to Mr Petrov!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Very interesting, will record it and watch later.
Sky, don't worry, when you post matrial from the public channels (ÖR's), they have no IP restrictions, accessible worldwide, unlike the damned british channels! However the footage is often only online for a limited amount of time.

ZDF mediathek stores its film material for seven days after broadcasting.

I meanwhile remembered that I have linked a film from the ZDF mediathek earlier, some months ago. And back then it was blocked from access from outside Germany.

I want to add, that the guy who made the documentation is not a historian, but a journalist.

Oh, good to know, I thought he was a historian who cross-changed into journalism later.

[Gammelpreusse]

Originally Posted by Skybird

ZDF mediathek stores its film material for seven days after broadcasting.

I meanwhile remembered that I have linked a film from the ZDF mediathek earlier, some months ago. And back then it was blocked from access from outside Germany.


Oh, good to know, I thought he was a historian who cross-changed into journalism later.

Historians don't necessarily make good history, Knopp being a prime example. I thought this show plausible and well researched enough as it is. That, after all, is what journalists do, historians just take over after the events have been taken to the archives.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Considering that man is made in His image, and looking at how messed up we are and mess up things around us

Not a very accurate assumption. Just because somebody looks like you Skybird doesn't mean he acts like you.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Not a very accurate assumption. Just because somebody looks like you Skybird doesn't mean he acts like you.

I think looks was the last thing that the author who wrote Genesis 1:27 had in mind.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I think looks was the last thing that the author who wrote Genesis 1:27 had in mind.

Well you may think it but the actual passage does not imply such a thing:

So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Reece

Certainly an eye opener, amazing how it can boil down to a decision of just one man, and if that person was not of sound mind...

A good read Skybird.

+1 I still think about the book "October Fury" with the Cuban Missle Crisis and how close we came to shooting there.

Basically, the Soviet subs were armed with 1 nuke torp and they were authorised to use it if they were attacked. They came very close to launching and the captain backed down at the last minute.

[nikimcbee]

"This book is a very detailed account of the Cuban Missile Crisis, as told by both the Russian submariners tasked to get through to Cuba and the American destroyers bent on stopping them. In 1962, the decision was made to station both land-based nuclear missiles and nuclear-armed bomber, as well as SSB submarines armed with nuclear missiles in Cuba. The land-based portion, dubbed Operation Anadyr, would use cargo ships to deploy the land based missiles, bomber and troops. The Naval operation, Kama, was to be initiated by four Soviet Project 641 Foxtrot diesel attack submarines, sailing from the Kola peninsula bound for Cuba. These would act as an advanced guard, to be followed by seven Project 629 Golf class ballistic missile submarines, each carrying three nuclear-tipped missiles. The plan was for these submarines to be based out of Cuba, where they could threaten the southern U.S. Just prior to departure, each of the Foxtrot submarines received, in addition to their normal torpedo loads, one 10 kiloton T-5 nuclear torpedo. Admiral Gorshkov's orders were; "You will use these weapons if American forces attack you submerged or force your units to the surface and the attack...." The fate of the world was thereby placed in the hands of four Russian submarine commanders. The book skillfully weaves the ensuing tale, alternating the Soviet submariner's stories with the American destroyer's ASW pursuits as the crisis progresses. A showdown in which USS Blandy drops small charges to force one of the submarines, B-130, to surface, leads to frustration for the submarine captain. He therefore orders loading and flooding, in preparation for firing, of the torpedo tube with the T-5 nuclear warhead. Fortunately, cooler heads prevail upon the captain to back down. Although overall a good read, I had a few minor quibbles. The author uses interviews to reconstruct conversations, and the places them in quotes. In fact it is highly unlikely that those represent the actual words spoken, as quotes imply. He also has two Russian attaches taking the train to Boston in order to observe the submarines at the New London sub base when the train stops in New London. In fact, Electric Boat is visible across the river, but the submarine base and piers are not at all visible from the train. The closest approach of the train is on the bridge over the Thames River, still some distance, with the sub base some 3 miles away. Nonetheless, this book lends new insights into just how close the world really came to disaster during that alarming time in history. The author was on board one of the American destroyers, USS Blandy, assigned to the USS Essex task force group, and thus tells tale that from a first hand perspective. Thomas J. Dougherty
"I bought this book because I was offended by the hype on the dust cover, which presented it as another Kennedy Court History in which the Cuban Missile Crisis is made to sound even more scary than it really was. It was a pleasant surprise to read a balanced account of Soviet submarine operations during the Crisis, which refutes many of the exaggerated claims still being made about the possibility of unauthorized use of tactical nukes. We learn that Soviet nuclear torpedoes were escorted by armed KGB officers who actually slept on top of the weapons, and the Rules of Engagement were so onerous that a sub would have to be actually sinking before one could be fired. Just to be safe, the sub crews were given no training on the nukes and were kept ignorant of their capabilities. This isn't too surprising when one considers that a military coup was always the secret nightmare of communist governments. If the tactical nukes assigned to Soviet Army units in Cuba were under similar restrictions, it is hard to see how they could ever have been fired––the nightmare scenario still being cited by Robert MacNamara to justify the Kennedys' secret treaty with Khrushchev. Another revelation is the very poor mechanical performance of the Soviet subs which suffered an appalling series of engine breakdowns. From the limited details given in this book, it appears that many of these failures were due to mistakes by poorly trained engineering personnel. (Fatigue due to the intense tropical heat and humidity may be a factor also.) Since these subs had specially selected crews and were just out of refit, the mind boggles at what the average Soviet diesel boat must have been like in 1962. Had Khrushchev actually proceeded with his plan to base Golf-class missile subs permanently in Cuba, the result could only have been utter disaster. The more we learn about the Soviet side of the Missile Crisis, the more it looks like the most badly planned and implemented military operation of all time." Jeffrey F. Bell

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Well you may think it but the actual passage does not imply such a thing:

So when you agree that looks was not what it was about, so what is your problem then, and why your opening remark, that you now have lead ad absurdum?

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

So when you agree that looks was not what it was about, so what is your problem then, and why your opening remark, that you now have lead ad absurdum?

You must be mistranslating something Skybird. I did not say that looks was not what that passage was about, you did.

And what is ad absurdum about quoting the actual passage in question?

[Onkel Neal]

It's open to interpretation. I take it that God made man in his image, that he is capable of rational thought, though in many cases, both seem to neglect it.

Now, back on topic, I think you'll like this: http://www.slate.com/id/2286735/

Maj. Hering sacrificed his military career to ask a Forbidden Question about launching nuclear missiles. A question that exposed the comforting illusions of the so called fail-safe system designed to prevent "unauthorized" nuclear missile launches.

How close are we day to day to an accident? We won't know until close calls are reported, or the Big Oopsie occurs.

Your launch order codes are "authenticated," everything seems in order, the seconds tick away. But in what may be the last seconds of your life—for all you know Soviet missiles are about to rain down on the plains—a thought crosses your mind. About "authentication." It's supposed to ensure that the launch order comes from the president himself, or (if the president has been killed) from the surviving head of the nuclear chain of command.
But what about that person at the top of the chain of command, the person who gives the order? Has he been "authenticated"? Who authenticates the authenticator? Can the president start a nuclear war on his own authority—his own whim or will—alone? The way Brigadier Gen. Jack D. Ripper did in Dr. Strangelove? What if a president went off his meds, as we'd say today, and decided to pull a Ripper himself? Or what if a Ripper-type madman succeeded in sending a falsely authenticated launch order? You're about to kill 10 million people, after all.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

It's open to interpretation. I take it that God made man in his image, that he is capable of rational thought, though in many cases, both seem to neglect it.

Now, back on topic, I think you'll like this: http://www.slate.com/id/2286735/


How close are we day to day to an accident? We won't know until close calls are reported, or the Big Oopsie occurs.

This is why I think the Navy has the better system than the Air Force. It lacks those presidential locks to a degree. The SSBN's mission is retaliation and thus must be able to attack if those who would give the order are all dead, so they have the authority to monitor communications as necessary and if they learn that a nuclear attack has devastated the USA and their command and control system then retaliate as per their SOPs.