Public Insensitivity? Or is Enough Enough?

[Krauter]

I was meaning to write this topic for a while now, but it kind of fell to the back of my mind with exams and all. But after making a trip to the Olympic stadium a few days ago this topic came back to mind.

What I'm wondering about is on the topic of the homeless people who beg and ask for money at any opportunity.

I'll put a little perspective in this. Here in Montreal, I need to use the Metro (ie: Subway system and bus system) everyday. Be it to get to school, groceries or whatnot. Every time I go to the closest subway station there is always at least 3-4 beggers there.

That's fine, every cities probably got that. But, these I find different. For example; when I visited Vancouver, I saw homeless people begging, but they just sat there with a cup.
Now in Montreal, I see at least two or three homeless people with amputated limbs (ie: They wait for you inside the subway station with their shirts off and pants rolled up so you can see their limbs). At first I was repelled a little, now I find myself not caring or getting a little angry I see them. The situation is similar with other people as well who won't even look at all or spare a second glance.

My whole meaning to this thread (which to me sounds kind of rambling on..) is:

a) Who is in the 'wrong' here? Me/Population; for not paying attention or feeling nothing towards these people. Or the homeless begger who is obviously attempting to use his amputated limbs as a means to get money. (Theres also a man who either has dimentia or is just.. special, who screams incoherently at you asking for... food? money? I don't know.. I still don't feel anything towards him but a little bit of frustration).

and

b) Is this an example of people being in such close proximity that we don't view each other as people but merely objects anymore. As well as the whole Western thing that gore doesn't really turn our stomachs as much as it does in Europe?

Cheers

Krauter

[Platapus]

Within the laws, they have a right to beg for money
you have a right to not give them money.

No one is in the "wrong" here.

It is only when one tries to interfere with the other's right that there is a problem.

Personally, I don't give money to people begging in the streets. Instead I regularly donate to specific charities that I know put the money to good use.

However, if others wish to give money directly, that's their decision.

We all do what we feel is the best. And none of us should feel guilty about it.

[GoldenRivet]

I agree with Platapus here on all points.

Something detrimental has taken place in their lives to put them into this position. i wouldnt go so far as to say "society has failed them" because usually they got into that position by faults of their own - alcohol abuse - drug abuse etc

I also know it is a fact that there are people who take to "pan handling" for a living.

that is that they make respectable careers out of begging... some of which reportedly bring in $30-50,000 annually just by begging, they are in fact home owners or renters and in all likelihood own a car and have a nice place to stay at the end of the day.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I agree with Platapus here on all points.

Whaaat?

Notify the administrators, someone hacked his account.

[Takeda Shingen]

I agree with both Plat and GR. They do have the right to ask for money. You also have the right to retain your money. Those would be the rules.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Whaaat?

Notify the administrators, someone hacked his account.

LOL

Originally Posted by Platapus

Instead I regularly donate to specific charities that I know put the money to good use.

now... onto the point of "Does the Federal Government have the right to tax me so that they can serve as a charity?" with that question, many folks here can likely get back to disagreeing with one another

[Skybird]

Beggars should be forbidden. You feel guilty if you don't give them money, and you feel guilty if you do.

[nikimcbee]

In ore-gone, it is a lifestyle choice, and the city panders to them.

[Sailor Steve]

It may seem strange, but I used to give money to panhandlers, even when I was poor. Being homeless myself actually cured me of it. When I lived in the homeless shelter I quickly discovered that there were several places to get free food, including a Catholic-run dining room and hangout right across the street from a large mall. One day I was walking to the soup kitchen when a healthy-looking young man asked me for a couple of bucks so he could get something to eat. I told him to come with me, as I was on my way to the free lunch and it was right around the corner. I can't repeat his reply here.

No one starves here unless they want to. If the free food available doesn't suit your taste, fine, but don't ask me for money so you don't have to eat what I do.

[Freiwillige]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Beggars should be forbidden. You feel guilty if you don't give them money, and you feel guilty if you do.

Actually this is so true.

[Krauter]

At Platapus and GR, I'm not disputing their right to pan handle or beg.

The whole point of this thread is to see whether seeing such things makes people insensitive about this or is it just society moving in that direction at all.


A for the who is right and who is wrong. Again I'm not disputing begging. I don't care if the guy is sitting there bundled up in a sleeping bag or showing me his amputated limbs, I'm not going to give him money.

What I meant by who is in the wrong, is compared to other beggars who sit there with a cup/sign what ever, are these people who try to play off of emotions (showing amputated limbs to bloody 4 year olds for christ sake) worse?

[Castout]

People are just getting colder in general.

Population has exploded and most people have to work very hard to earn their living often paycheck to paycheck. They are simply drained of energy and passion to care about anything else I suppose. And when you have to work very hard only to earn a little I suppose it would make you a little angry seeing someone begging.

[the_tyrant]

http://www.cracked.com/article_19004...cience_p2.html

look at number 1

Most of us are familiar with the bystander effect, an unfortunate phenomenon in which people in crowds ignore others in danger because they think that someone else in the vicinity will go to their rescue. But what about the generally dickish way people in cities act even when you're not being mugged? When you're in a small town, chances are that people will be friendly and happy to talk to you, and all you'll really have to worry about is being attacked by mutants while having sex in the forest.



In the city, however, everything from ordering food to passing people on the street will probably be accompanied by intense surliness. This is not because rural folk are inherently kinder, either: People from nonurban backgrounds tend to start acting the same way once they've been in the city for a while.

What The Hell Is Going On Here?

It's because of "urban overload," the incredibly large amount of information that those in urban environments must process. In one experiment testing the theory, a man wearing a cast pretended to drop some boxes of books while hidden observers counted how many strangers would offer to help. What determined the number of people who stopped to help wasn't whether passersby were wearing business suits or Stetsons, but whether a noisy piece of machinery was audible in the background. More than five times as many people stopped to help in a quiet environment than in a noisy one.


The study didn't come right out and say that headphones turn us into soulless monsters, but it was pretty heavily implied.

According to science, it works like this: Modern city dwellers must wade through thousands of potential social interactions every day. In order to deal with this, they must be selective about what they focus on. This leads them to unconsciously ignore "unimportant" information, whether it's a flashing strip club advertisement or an injured kitten.


"Ahh, they'll work it out."

The theory was first proposed in 1970 by Stanley Milgram, who observed that city dwellers try to cope by using "filtering devices." He meant it metaphorically back then, but the fact that we started stuffing real filtering devices into our ears as soon as they were invented means that his theory is holding up pretty well.

Another thing that social scientists have noted is that although most impersonal city interaction seems rude, it's actually also a form of politeness. Most of the time, people passing on the street or standing together in an elevator are not really ignoring each other.


Especially not if the office cafeteria served boiled cabbage for lunch.

Instead, we'll acknowledge the other person by looking at him briefly without eye contact and then looking away. This is called "civil inattention," and it works by letting the other person know that you see him, but are respecting his right to privacy. If we urbanites really didn't care about the people around us, we'd do stuff like point and stare if someone was wearing a funny hat. This technique allows us to walk the line between total blanking and overfamiliar creepiness, a balance that is of desperate importance when the crowded subway is forcing our elbow into someone's crotch.



Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_19004...#ixzz1EegiPDln

this seems to fit
I didn't quote the pictures though, so it might seem a bit odd

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Beggars should be forbidden. You feel guilty if you don't give them money, and you feel guilty if you do.

I don't feel anything towards them.

[Buddahaid]

Says it all.