German minister denies plagiarism on PhD thesis

Gerald · 02-17-11, 08:26 AM

Germany's defence minister has denied newspaper allegations that he committed plagiarism in his PhD thesis.

Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg got top marks for his 2006 law dissertation from the University of Bayreuth.

But the Suddeutsche Zeitung says several long passages in the thesis seem to have just been lifted from other people's work.

The telegenic minister has dismissed the accusations as "absurd".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12489762

Note: 17 February 2011 Last updated at 01:14 GMT

Gerald · 02-21-11, 10:27 PM

Germany's defence minister has given up his doctoral title for good, after allegations that he had plagiarised sections of his thesis.

Last week Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg said he would temporarily give up the title while his university investigated the charges.

The University of Bayreuth says he has now asked them to retract his doctorate in law, according to German TV.

Mr Guttenberg admitted that he had made "serious mistakes".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12532877

Note: Update Record,22 February 2011 Last updated at 00:27 GMT

Gerald · 02-21-11, 10:31 PM

You knew very well what it's all about, who fabricated the paper that would benefit you

the_tyrant · 02-21-11, 10:50 PM

"lifted from other people's work"

With the new computer anti cheating software traditional plagiarism has almost no chance of success.
Why didn't he hire someone to help him form a thesis?

Gammelpreusse · 02-22-11, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

"lifted from other people's work"

With the new computer anti cheating software traditional plagiarism has almost no chance of success.
Why didn't he hire someone to help him form a thesis?

lol, there even are rumors stating exactly that, somebody else got hired to write it for him.

Fun, but I doubt it will damage Guttenberg's political career beyond repair.

Gerald · 02-22-11, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gammelpreusse

lol, there even are rumors stating exactly that, somebody else got hired to write it for him.

Fun, but I doubt it will damage Guttenberg's political career beyond repair.

Do not say it, a small bird can easily become larger,anyway, so it became problematic in view of trust.

Skybird · 02-22-11, 06:40 AM

A PhD is not worth much anymore. That should not minimise those writing their dissertation with honest effort currently, but it is a simple truth. You can buy the title, you can paste and copy other author's work, you can can hire ghostwriters, and the inflationary presence of PhD titles in certain circles of power and influence is more than just smelling suspicious. Plus that the methodological standards in different achademic branches vary widely regarding what methodological competence must be shown in order to succeed with your PhD - in some branches, like medicine, it is a bad joke.

Guttenberg knows how to sell himself to the public, but he is just another poltiicians, and his top priority his himself. Whenever he is in danger of getting into troubled waters, he starts kicking other people and in a very haughty manner, and this has become a pattern with him from the very beginning of his days as defence minister.

So now he even has lost his claim to be honest and "playing by the rules". In other words, the noble man has lost his honour - and he still plays the media game from a high horse. Why the majority of Germans still support this blender just because he sells himself so well to the media, is beyond me. Once again I think people want to be deceived.

He is just another politician. He's just another blender .

Gerald · 02-22-11, 06:46 AM

Although a PhD is not worth much as this harms him indirectly, even if he is how good any time of the "marketing effort" so of course I agree .... he is one of the crowd anyway right now

NeonSamurai · 02-22-11, 08:43 AM

He is a numbskull for not doing what all good writers do... paraphrasing. Precious little that is written is at all original (heck its often frowned on, which is why most papers need to be rife with pretty much nothing but references).

Also of course the people want to be deceived, this is why stations like Fox news (and pretty much the rest of the media) exist. People don't want to think for themselves, thinking is hard and scary, and worst of all it makes you responsible for your own actions and everything. Nobody wants that... So much easier to have someone else spoon-feed it to you, that way you can blame them if you ever realize they got it wrong.

the_tyrant · 02-22-11, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

He is a numbskull for not doing what all good writers do... paraphrasing. Precious little that is written is at all original (heck its often frowned on, which is why most papers need to be rife with pretty much nothing but references).

Also of course the people want to be deceived, this is why stations like Fox news (and pretty much the rest of the media) exist. People don't want to think for themselves, thinking is hard and scary, and worst of all it makes you responsible for your own actions and everything. Nobody wants that... So much easier to have someone else spoon-feed it to you, that way you can blame them if you ever realize they got it wrong.

Quoting from memory:
Lisa:"I don't think its such a good idea."
Homer:"you see honey, we have elected officials to prevent us from thinking"
Lisa:"I still think its not a good idea"
Homer:"tsk, tsk, tsk, theres the 't' word again"

Schroeder · 02-22-11, 10:14 AM

@Skybird

Don't even get me started that his thesis got him a "Summa Cum Laude".

That's where it's really getting nasty for me. How can such junk get the best possible mark? I somehow have trouble to believe that Guttenberg's doctoral adviser wasn't bought or at the very least a fellow party member/sympathiser.

What pi**es me off to no end is that now all academics get the reputation of being copy cats and that it is awfully easy to get any degree. For someone like me who has sweat blood and water to get his own thesis finished in time and played by the rules this is really frustrating.

Skybird · 02-22-11, 06:18 PM

@ Schroeder:

We worry too much about Guttenberg. The real important issue is this:

link

Schroeder · 02-23-11, 10:21 AM

I'm still waiting for a debate like that...actually I expect the PC brigade to start one every minute now.

Gerald · 02-23-11, 11:07 AM

This one,

http://www.welt.de/debatte/henryk-m-...rue#reqdrucken

Schroeder · 02-23-11, 01:07 PM

That's the very same article that Skybird posted.

02-17-11, 08:26 AM	#1
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	German minister denies plagiarism on PhD thesis Germany's defence minister has denied newspaper allegations that he committed plagiarism in his PhD thesis. Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg got top marks for his 2006 law dissertation from the University of Bayreuth. But the Suddeutsche Zeitung says several long passages in the thesis seem to have just been lifted from other people's work. The telegenic minister has dismissed the accusations as "absurd". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12489762 Note: 17 February 2011 Last updated at 01:14 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

02-21-11, 10:27 PM	#2
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	German minister gives up doctorate after plagiarism row Germany's defence minister has given up his doctoral title for good, after allegations that he had plagiarised sections of his thesis. Last week Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg said he would temporarily give up the title while his university investigated the charges. The University of Bayreuth says he has now asked them to retract his doctorate in law, according to German TV. Mr Guttenberg admitted that he had made "serious mistakes". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12532877 Note: Update Record,22 February 2011 Last updated at 00:27 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

02-21-11, 10:31 PM	#3
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	"serious mistakes" You knew very well what it's all about, who fabricated the paper that would benefit you __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

02-21-11, 10:50 PM	#4
the_tyrant Admiral Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,272 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	"lifted from other people's work" With the new computer anti cheating software traditional plagiarism has almost no chance of success. Why didn't he hire someone to help him form a thesis? __________________ My own open source project on Sourceforge OTP.net KGB grade encryption for the rest of us

02-22-11, 06:40 AM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	A PhD is not worth much anymore. That should not minimise those writing their dissertation with honest effort currently, but it is a simple truth. You can buy the title, you can paste and copy other author's work, you can can hire ghostwriters, and the inflationary presence of PhD titles in certain circles of power and influence is more than just smelling suspicious. Plus that the methodological standards in different achademic branches vary widely regarding what methodological competence must be shown in order to succeed with your PhD - in some branches, like medicine, it is a bad joke. Guttenberg knows how to sell himself to the public, but he is just another poltiicians, and his top priority his himself. Whenever he is in danger of getting into troubled waters, he starts kicking other people and in a very haughty manner, and this has become a pattern with him from the very beginning of his days as defence minister. So now he even has lost his claim to be honest and "playing by the rules". In other words, the noble man has lost his honour - and he still plays the media game from a high horse. Why the majority of Germans still support this blender just because he sells himself so well to the media, is beyond me. Once again I think people want to be deceived. He is just another politician. He's just another blender . __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-22-11, 06:46 AM	#8
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Although a PhD is not worth much as this harms him indirectly, even if he is how good any time of the "marketing effort" so of course I agree .... he is one of the crowd anyway right now __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

02-22-11, 08:43 AM	#9
NeonSamurai Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Socialist Republic of Kanadia Posts: 3,044 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	He is a numbskull for not doing what all good writers do... paraphrasing. Precious little that is written is at all original (heck its often frowned on, which is why most papers need to be rife with pretty much nothing but references). Also of course the people want to be deceived, this is why stations like Fox news (and pretty much the rest of the media) exist. People don't want to think for themselves, thinking is hard and scary, and worst of all it makes you responsible for your own actions and everything. Nobody wants that... So much easier to have someone else spoon-feed it to you, that way you can blame them if you ever realize they got it wrong. __________________ SH3 Newbie Guide Links and other helpfull stuff

02-22-11, 10:14 AM	#11
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	@Skybird Don't even get me started that his thesis got him a "Summa Cum Laude". That's where it's really getting nasty for me. How can such junk get the best possible mark? I somehow have trouble to believe that Guttenberg's doctoral adviser wasn't bought or at the very least a fellow party member/sympathiser. What pi**es me off to no end is that now all academics get the reputation of being copy cats and that it is awfully easy to get any degree. For someone like me who has sweat blood and water to get his own thesis finished in time and played by the rules this is really frustrating. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

02-22-11, 06:18 PM	#12
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	@ Schroeder: We worry too much about Guttenberg. The real important issue is this: link __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-23-11, 10:21 AM	#13
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	I'm still waiting for a debate like that...actually I expect the PC brigade to start one every minute now. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

02-23-11, 11:07 AM	#14
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	This one, http://www.welt.de/debatte/henryk-m-...rue#reqdrucken __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

02-23-11, 01:07 PM	#15
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	That's the very same article that Skybird posted. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.