Lines of sight

Orm · 10-24-05, 03:07 AM

Hi,

I donâ€™t remember if this topic has been discussed previously, but forgive me if it has. I had a dive last evening against three opponents in a quite complex map full of seamounts, very shallow, with few deep areas. So, when we started, no one had any contact on each other. I was driving an Akula, so, after weapons free, I used four subrocs, randomly, on four locations to check for any reaction. And one of my torps got a contact. So I knew that a possible sub was there. Of course, I launched further missiles and ultimately sank my opponent.
Now, my question is that isnâ€™t it cheating that you can see on the NavMap your torps getting or not contacts even if between you and the target, there isnâ€™t any lines of sight, because of very shallow seamounts or islands.

Molon Labe · 10-24-05, 08:44 AM

It would be cheating even if you had a clear line of sight, since you're not tracking it on sonar anyways.

We've been complaining about weapon-Truth for awhile, all we can do is hope. I have no idea what they were thinking when they did this in the first place.

LuftWolf · 10-24-05, 08:48 AM

Well, I'd guess the art of tracking your own fish has evolved to some degree to be fairly reliable IF you have a sonar track (listening for aspect changes etc...).

Of course, without a sonar track on the torpedo or in the case of missiles, that's out the window!

Orm · 10-24-05, 09:38 AM

Thanks for your answers. I know that some of us benefit of this cheat, but anyway I had had bad taste in the mouth after this dive.

Fandango · 10-24-05, 09:41 AM

But in real life, can you track your torp if it's wire guided?...

timmyg00 · 10-24-05, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orm

after weapons free, I used four subrocs, randomly, on four locations to check for any reaction. And one of my torps got a contact. So I knew that a possible sub was there.

You used a weapon to flush out an opponent, instead of actually using your sensors to detect them?

Great tactic... NOT!

What kind of league allows that sort of thing?

TG

Orm · 10-24-05, 11:29 AM

timmyg00 wrote

Quote:

Great tactic... NOT! What kind of league allows that sort of thing?

I don't understand the meaning of your remark. It just seems for me that you are searching for problems. If you do it, do it somewhere else, or be productive in your comments. I may remind you that the question had nothing to do with the tactics used during a dive.

Bellman · 10-24-05, 12:18 PM

Orm,

The seamount scenario you dived was it a Fish SW one ore one of mine. It just rang a Bell -

Probably because its one of Fish's I have played.:hmm:

Rare to get any feedback so it would be real nice if you give any opinions/ criticisms.

Driftwood · 10-24-05, 12:37 PM

I suppose "cheating" is in the eyes of the beholder. I believe we find out a lot of these things "on the dive" (fly, forgive the pun but I couldn't resist.)

While the concept of "flushing out your opponent" certainly isn't new, using a weapon to do it is (to me at least). I've used a UUV launch before to draw fire so a team mate can effectively target an opponent but never a weapon. Using weapons in this matter CERTAINLY isn't realistic. As is using massive weapons fire (> 3 fish per target). But hey, whatever floats (or sinks) your boat. If it's not specifically against your ROE let your conscience be your guide.

Orm · 10-24-05, 01:00 PM

Bellman wrote

Quote:

Orm,

The seamount scenario you dived was it a Fish SW one ore one of mine. It just rang a Bell -
Probably because its one of Fish's I have played.

Rare to get any feedback so it would be real nice if you give any opinions/ criticisms.

Bellman,

To answer your question and give you my comments, I will, then, do. It was a map design by Fish and it was the second time I dived on it. To be sincere, I didnâ€™t really like it. It is too small for subs like Seawolf or Akula. There is no room to move. In other way, it is Kiloâ€™s paradise. And, it is right that the general configuration of this map give to the Akula the possibility to use, for some in immoral way, the particularity of the subrocs to shoot without any contact, and to overcome the problems of the seamounts, just to see for any possible reaction. I donâ€™t say that it is an ideal tactic or fair, but until now thatâ€™s what the subroc allow you to do.

Orm · 10-24-05, 01:10 PM

lrankine wrote

Quote:

Using weapons in this matter CERTAINLY isn't realistic. As is using massive weapons fire (> 3 fish per target)

But, is our sub vs. sub duel-like matches in leagues realistic?

Molon Labe · 10-24-05, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orm

Thanks for your answers. I know that some of us benefit of this cheat, but anyway I had had bad taste in the mouth after this dive.

We all do, unless we start whiting out the screen or something, is hard not to see!

Molon Labe · 10-24-05, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyg00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orm

after weapons free, I used four subrocs, randomly, on four locations to check for any reaction. And one of my torps got a contact. So I knew that a possible sub was there.

You used a weapon to flush out an opponent, instead of actually using your sensors to detect them?

Great tactic... NOT!

What kind of league allows that sort of thing?

TG

The SeaWolves, unfortunately.

timmyg00 · 10-24-05, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orm

timmyg00 wrote

Quote:

Great tactic... NOT! What kind of league allows that sort of thing?

I don't understand the meaning of your remark. It just seems for me that you are searching for problems. If you do it, do it somewhere else, or be productive in your comments. I may remind you that the question had nothing to do with the tactics used during a dive.

I don't see any rules in the forum that prohibit me from offering an opinion about the parts of your post that you used to preface your question. If you don't want it discussed, don't bring it up :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orm

lrankine wrote

Quote:

Using weapons in this matter CERTAINLY isn't realistic. As is using massive weapons fire (> 3 fish per target)

But, is our sub vs. sub duel-like matches in leagues realistic?

Are sub vs. sub duels realistic? If they include more than 2 subs in the same general area of the map, I would say no. Certainly one sub vs another is realistic.

However, just because the map designer chooses to make unrealistic maps does not force you to make unrealistic choices. But if that's the way you like to play, it's not for me to tell you to stop... But I certainly won't mind offering up an opinion

TG

Fish · 10-24-05, 05:11 PM

Tactics to flush out people, are as old as we play multiplayer. Nothing new.
In 688(I) HK ( past century ) people used slow, ots launched torpedos for that purpose.
Guys, this is a game, if you want realistic missions, join the navy.

Most maps are made for fun, not to pretend to be realistic. I read the reports, I try to imagine what kind of maps the majority likes.

When we play a war we try to make the maps "more" realistic, but its still a game, isn't it?

10-24-05, 03:07 AM	#1
Orm Torpedoman Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 116 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Lines of sight Hi, I donâ€™t remember if this topic has been discussed previously, but forgive me if it has. I had a dive last evening against three opponents in a quite complex map full of seamounts, very shallow, with few deep areas. So, when we started, no one had any contact on each other. I was driving an Akula, so, after weapons free, I used four subrocs, randomly, on four locations to check for any reaction. And one of my torps got a contact. So I knew that a possible sub was there. Of course, I launched further missiles and ultimately sank my opponent. Now, my question is that isnâ€™t it cheating that you can see on the NavMap your torps getting or not contacts even if between you and the target, there isnâ€™t any lines of sight, because of very shallow seamounts or islands. __________________ Orm

10-24-05, 08:48 AM	#3
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Well, I'd guess the art of tracking your own fish has evolved to some degree to be fairly reliable IF you have a sonar track (listening for aspect changes etc...). Of course, without a sonar track on the torpedo or in the case of missiles, that's out the window! __________________ LW

10-24-05, 09:38 AM	#4
Orm Torpedoman Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 116 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thanks for your answers. I know that some of us benefit of this cheat, but anyway I had had bad taste in the mouth after this dive. __________________ Orm

10-24-05, 09:41 AM	#5
Fandango Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Trieste, Italy Posts: 236 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	But in real life, can you track your torp if it's wire guided?... __________________ The true worth of a man is to be measured by the objects he pursues. - Marcus Aurelius

10-24-05, 12:18 PM	#8
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Orm, The seamount scenario you dived was it a Fish SW one ore one of mine. It just rang a Bell - Probably because its one of Fish's I have played.:hmm: Rare to get any feedback so it would be real nice if you give any opinions/ criticisms. __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

10-24-05, 08:44 AM	#2
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	It would be cheating even if you had a clear line of sight, since you're not tracking it on sonar anyways. We've been complaining about weapon-Truth for awhile, all we can do is hope. I have no idea what they were thinking when they did this in the first place.

10-24-05, 12:37 PM	#9
Driftwood Chief Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Western NC Posts: 325 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I suppose "cheating" is in the eyes of the beholder. I believe we find out a lot of these things "on the dive" (fly, forgive the pun but I couldn't resist.) While the concept of "flushing out your opponent" certainly isn't new, using a weapon to do it is (to me at least). I've used a UUV launch before to draw fire so a team mate can effectively target an opponent but never a weapon. Using weapons in this matter CERTAINLY isn't realistic. As is using massive weapons fire (> 3 fish per target). But hey, whatever floats (or sinks) your boat. If it's not specifically against your ROE let your conscience be your guide. __________________ Retired US Army Paratrooper Virtual Sub Skipper

10-24-05, 05:11 PM	#15
Fish Eternal Patrol Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,923 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Tactics to flush out people, are as old as we play multiplayer. Nothing new. In 688(I) HK ( past century ) people used slow, ots launched torpedos for that purpose. Guys, this is a game, if you want realistic missions, join the navy. Most maps are made for fun, not to pretend to be realistic. I read the reports, I try to imagine what kind of maps the majority likes. When we play a war we try to make the maps "more" realistic, but its still a game, isn't it?