Scientist call for rationing in the 'developed' world

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Just a quick comment, but the only reason why Japan has so many forests is because they import a lot of wood from countries like Canada. Demand is considerably higher then what the country produces.

Maybe, but the point is that other nations having had huge forests too, and completel lost them due to demand (Spain, Greece, parts of Italy). Without the totalitarian enforcement of forest protection and controlled forest farming by the Shoguns, Japan today most likely would be a barren island, because the demand for wood, precious wood as well as ordinary ones, was exploding since the time just before the Tokugawa period.

Recommended summary read on the issue: Jared Diamond: Collapse, chapter 9 (page 346-385 in the German edition).

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

What is up with this obsession of setting TEN YEAR deadlines? Wasn't it 11 years ago we heard the same deadline for the end of civilization because of global warming? They said it is over, no mas, end of the line, we all gonna die. Wasn't there a few blithering idiots here at SUBSIM regirgitating the same crap? Where are they now?

I can think of about 5 times that the world was sure to end in my lifetime.

for as long as i have been alive, there have been all the "signs" of the looming apocalypse.

I remember talking to my mom about this ages ago and she said "Yep... pretty much been that way for as long as i've been alive too."

LOL

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

The problem though is that things are getting worse not better. Globally emissions are increasing, not decreasing, and unless something is done relatively soon (especially given how slowly we as a species tend to react to such stuff), we will hit the tipping over point which would be catastrophic for our species, and many other species that we share the planet with.

Worse though, the closer and closer we get to the tipping point, the more extreme the change would have to be to counter it, and the less likely we are to implement it in time.


Anyhow you guys are using a whole wack of different fallacies (false arguments) in your statements (strawman, ad hominem, tu quoque, red herring, and several others). http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

I think it's cute how the Usual Suspects seem to be ignoring this post.

I guess if you likely have nothing to counter with, you ignore.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

I think it's cute how the Usual Suspects seem to be ignoring this post.

You've used that exact phrase before.

I guess if you likely have nothing to counter with, you ignore.

As opposed to you, who never has anything to say, but you say it anyway.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

So he had to fly from the UK to Cancun, Mexico just to say this?

Seems a tad hypocritical...

Welcome to the modern world. Buying groceries emits more carbon than my lungs do in one day of operation.

I don't know how many noticed.
But many people ARE rationing in the U.S.A. today!
Not because the Gov or anyone else tells us to.
Because things......
Pardon the expression...........
SUCK right now!


God help you if you make a liveing running your own business,
cause the Gov sure won't.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

I think it's cute how the Usual Suspects seem to be ignoring this post.

I guess if you likely have nothing to counter with, you ignore.

Well I guess I did when I mentioned being told by your sources there was ten years left and then the world would suffer it's end. What about the ice age in 74? Still alive. The warming of 2k. Yep, still alive. Global emissions rising will now lead to our demise, Tell me what makes this different why should I believe this anymore than I did the other?

Next don't come here telling me what I or even 'we' should be doing to prevent your catastrophy. It's your end of the world as we know it story so tell me what YOU are doing about it right now not what could be done or you're gonna do. Enlighten me, because if it is as bad as you and your sources are making it out to be. I would think you have by now taken some very drastic measures. I'm sure you have done your part by now and set some example haven't you? Tell us obi-wan what have you done to stem the tide. With the end of the world right around the corner (again) I'm sure you have gone far above and beyond the call of duty, right?

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

I think it's cute how the Usual Suspects seem to be ignoring this post.

I guess if you likely have nothing to counter with, you ignore.

And I guess your sitting on a pedal bike that is hooked to a generator
to produce the power that runs your computer and stuff?

And that hook up to the 'Net has no effect on Global warming right?

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Well I guess I did when I mentioned being told by your sources there was ten years left and then the world would suffer it's end. What about the ice age in 74? Still alive. The warming of 2k. Yep, still alive. Global emissions rising will now lead to our demise, Tell me what makes this different why should I believe this anymore than I did the other?

Next don't come here telling me what I or even 'we' should be doing to prevent your catastrophy. It's your end of the world as we know it story so tell me what YOU are doing about it right now. Enlighten me, because if it is as bad as you and your sources are making it out to be. I would think you have by now taken some very drastic measures. I'm sure you have done your part by now and set some example haven't you? Tell us obi-wan what have you done to stem the tide. With the end of the world right around the corner (again) I'm sure you have gone far above and beyond the call of duty, right?

Hmm, please offer citations showing that most of the scientific community in the field was on board with those other claims you bring up please, particularly the 73 ice age theory, as the 2k warming as you put it is still alive and well and with strong support from the scientific community. The warming trend is still going on last I looked at the research material (which according to current evidence is clearly tied to global emission rates).

Me, I am doing what I can as a private citizen, I use public transport most of the time (a tank of gas for my car usually lasts 2-3 months), I try to limit the amount of energy I consume by using less heat in the winter and hardly any ac in the summer, I try to limit my creation of garbage and not buy a lot of junky consumer products, I also try to use energy efficient products with long life spans. That is just some of what I do. It is going to take a heck of a lot more then that, but it's about all I can do as one single person on my own.


But whatever, I know full well I am not going to change minds here. So many here seem to be tied up in rhetoric (often politically motivated rhetoric) so strongly, that even after offering piles of documented evidence that tears that rhetoric to shreds, people still cling as tenaciously as ever to it. It's like religious belief, but that is not very surprising considering almost all the counter arguments ever presented to me are entirely belief based, with no supporting empirical evidence, or peer reviewed research to back the claims up. Which is why I made the fallacies comment in my first post, as that is almost all I ever tend to see.