Meh, what else is new?

Torvald Von Mansee · 11-27-10, 10:10 AM

http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/2...-less-empathy/

August · 11-27-10, 10:36 AM

So how does that explain you?

GoldenRivet · 11-27-10, 11:17 AM

Just another blind thrust in the pointless class warfare your master has told you you must fight on his behalf.

CCIP · 11-27-10, 11:22 AM

It's not really surprising. People are conditioned by the social environment you grow up in. Say what you want, but there's a massive difference between growing up in a poor and rich family. You're exposed to very different influences and values. This has been scientifically observed, and I'm not talking about this article, which IMO takes things in a very weird way.

So while I think the conclusion here is waaaaaaaay farfetched and unscientific, it still rings true that fundamentally, where you grow up socioeconomically shapes you in very profound ways. In some ways, there is indeed a bigger cultural distance between wealthier people within the same country, than between people from similar social circumstances in different countries

GoldenRivet · 11-27-10, 11:27 AM

@ CCIP... True.

Our family, as recently as my parents childhood... the home had a dirt floor

i was fortunate enough that they received scholarships to college and excelled in their chosen careers.

of course success takes time, and for the first 12 years of my life we ate a lot of spaghetti if you know what i mean.

I've had a taste of both lifestyles to some extent. I have seen low lifes who wanted to rely on everyone else to get ahead... and i have seen hard working people who wanted to change their situation by their own effort.

perhaps that is the reason im so hard on those who just quit on life and choose to live on the hard work of others.

the_tyrant · 11-27-10, 11:30 AM

well, this explains the evil rich guy stereotype

GoldenRivet · 11-27-10, 11:35 AM

On the other hand, when my parents didnt have much to give, i've seen them put $10 in the salvation army collection boxes at Christmas.

when things really started growing with their business, up to today even there have been times where i have seen them put $100 in the box.

for some people, wealth just means a capacity to give more.

for others, it just means more for themselves.

I would assume that the problem of not having empathy comes from those who are born into wealth and are far detached from members of their family who have stories of being destitute.

I - for example - have recent enough memories that i clean out produce jars when empty and use them as dishes occasionally... even though i can afford to go out and replace all of my dishes tomorrow if i have to.

but someone else, who was perhaps 3 or 4 generations removed from "poverty" would be FAR less likely to do such a thing.

CCIP · 11-27-10, 11:36 AM

Yeah, I think this "we must hate rich people for being rich" attitude that some 'social justice advocates' take is really stupid. I dislike the general attitude to wealth that many rich people take, but I wouldn't paint them with such a uniform brush. There are good and bad influences everywhere, and by all means those who have business initiative and work ethic don't deserve to be called insensitive or dangerous any more than the poor in general deserve being called lazy. There are good and bad influences in all social classes, and honestly while you can't choose where you're born, parenting can make a huge differences to what influences their children take away from their upbringing with them, wherever they end up socially. By the same token, you can blame poor minority populations' cultures for keeping their kids dumb, violent gangster material - just that this would be less politically correct and today is not said as much. Granted, it is actually no more true than the 'evil rich' stereotype - things are a lot more complex than that. But I think inciting division and class warfare, from either side of the spectrum, is an absolutely stupid thing.

Penguin · 11-27-10, 12:36 PM

The study however comes a little out of the ebony tower and is a bit quick on conclusions. I don't think that being poor provides you with greater emparthy skills. The ability to read emotions falls more into the quick judgement/ street smartness skills. Having grown up poor, I have seen great examples of commuity feeling and solidarity as well as despictable examples of selfishness, dishonesty and of course violence. I agree that you are shaped by your environment, but this dosn't free you of you own will.

Being poor doesn't make you a saint as well as having money doesn't (necessary

) make you an arse.

The earlier study by these guys, regarding generousity, is more interesting. Maybe the sense of less solidarity of some rich folks roots in the circumstances how they became what they are. If they used their elbows all the time and try to use their targets by any means necessary they are of course less likely to have any empathy towards others.

In one of the few interesting books about economics - "Freakonomics" - there is an interesting chapter about a guy who sells bagels in a business environment. He delivered the bagels in the morning and put out a (unguarded) box where anybody could put the cash for the bagels into.
One interesting observation, among many others, is that the higher the box is located in the offices - where the middle and upper managements sits - the more likely it is that people cheat and don't pay.

If someone's interested in the chapter, you can pm me. (Note to the mods: under german copyright law it is legal to make a copy of book chapters for study purposes, I think the US has simular laws, fair use and such)

Ducimus · 11-27-10, 12:42 PM

I stopped reading here:

Quote:

Looking for empathy and support? You're more likely to get it from a poor person than you are from a rich one, according to new research published in Psychological Science.

This isn't new. People who are well off, are not concerned about anyone, and Why should they? Other people being poor, is not their concern. The more well off they are, the less they care. This isn't anything new or exciting. It's always been this way. At least in california. The public mantra of california, is "Me first".

the_tyrant · 11-27-10, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I stopped reading here:

This isn't new. People who are well off, are not concerned about anyone, and Why should they? Other people being poor, is not their concern. The more well off they are, the less they care. This isn't anything new or exciting. It's always been this way. At least in california. The public mantra of california, is "Me first".

you know, if you wanted to be the boss of a big corporation or a politician. you would have to be good at backstabbing and cut-through competition

Platapus · 11-27-10, 01:15 PM

Based on the Fundraising for NPO class I just finished, I would disagree with the premise that "the rich" are not emphatic.

The rich give a lot to NPOs and charities.

Armistead · 11-27-10, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Based on the Fundraising for NPO class I just finished, I would disagree with the premise that "the rich" are not emphatic.

The rich give a lot to NPOs and charities.

Yep, they make great tax shelters.....

Platapus · 11-27-10, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Yep, they make great tax shelters.....

Makes no difference to the NPO or the goodly services they provide to the community.

GoldenRivet · 11-27-10, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Yep, they make great tax shelters.....

is it a bad thing that there is a small tax incentives and reward for doing good?

i promise you my friend, when i send money to charity the last thing on my mind is the tax write off.

Do you seriously think I or anyone else was thinking of the tax write offs when we had that March of Dimes donation drive here at subsim a long while back?

since when is it a crime to have money and do as you wish with it?

there are two things im DONE being guilt tripped over...

one is being white, the other is being well off.

11-27-10, 10:10 AM	#1
Torvald Von Mansee Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: CA4528 Posts: 1,693 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Meh, what else is new? http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/2...-less-empathy/ __________________ "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you" - Leon Trotsky

11-27-10, 10:36 AM	#2
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	So how does that explain you? __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

11-27-10, 11:17 AM	#3
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Just another blind thrust in the pointless class warfare your master has told you you must fight on his behalf. __________________

11-27-10, 11:22 AM	#4
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	It's not really surprising. People are conditioned by the social environment you grow up in. Say what you want, but there's a massive difference between growing up in a poor and rich family. You're exposed to very different influences and values. This has been scientifically observed, and I'm not talking about this article, which IMO takes things in a very weird way. So while I think the conclusion here is waaaaaaaay farfetched and unscientific, it still rings true that fundamentally, where you grow up socioeconomically shapes you in very profound ways. In some ways, there is indeed a bigger cultural distance between wealthier people within the same country, than between people from similar social circumstances in different countries __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

11-27-10, 11:27 AM	#5
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	@ CCIP... True. Our family, as recently as my parents childhood... the home had a dirt floor i was fortunate enough that they received scholarships to college and excelled in their chosen careers. of course success takes time, and for the first 12 years of my life we ate a lot of spaghetti if you know what i mean. I've had a taste of both lifestyles to some extent. I have seen low lifes who wanted to rely on everyone else to get ahead... and i have seen hard working people who wanted to change their situation by their own effort. perhaps that is the reason im so hard on those who just quit on life and choose to live on the hard work of others. __________________

11-27-10, 11:30 AM	#6
the_tyrant Admiral Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,272 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	well, this explains the evil rich guy stereotype

11-27-10, 11:35 AM	#7
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	On the other hand, when my parents didnt have much to give, i've seen them put $10 in the salvation army collection boxes at Christmas. when things really started growing with their business, up to today even there have been times where i have seen them put $100 in the box. for some people, wealth just means a capacity to give more. for others, it just means more for themselves. I would assume that the problem of not having empathy comes from those who are born into wealth and are far detached from members of their family who have stories of being destitute. I - for example - have recent enough memories that i clean out produce jars when empty and use them as dishes occasionally... even though i can afford to go out and replace all of my dishes tomorrow if i have to. but someone else, who was perhaps 3 or 4 generations removed from "poverty" would be FAR less likely to do such a thing. __________________

11-27-10, 11:36 AM	#8
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Yeah, I think this "we must hate rich people for being rich" attitude that some 'social justice advocates' take is really stupid. I dislike the general attitude to wealth that many rich people take, but I wouldn't paint them with such a uniform brush. There are good and bad influences everywhere, and by all means those who have business initiative and work ethic don't deserve to be called insensitive or dangerous any more than the poor in general deserve being called lazy. There are good and bad influences in all social classes, and honestly while you can't choose where you're born, parenting can make a huge differences to what influences their children take away from their upbringing with them, wherever they end up socially. By the same token, you can blame poor minority populations' cultures for keeping their kids dumb, violent gangster material - just that this would be less politically correct and today is not said as much. Granted, it is actually no more true than the 'evil rich' stereotype - things are a lot more complex than that. But I think inciting division and class warfare, from either side of the spectrum, is an absolutely stupid thing. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

11-27-10, 12:36 PM	#9
Penguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rheinische Republik Posts: 3,322 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	The study however comes a little out of the ebony tower and is a bit quick on conclusions. I don't think that being poor provides you with greater emparthy skills. The ability to read emotions falls more into the quick judgement/ street smartness skills. Having grown up poor, I have seen great examples of commuity feeling and solidarity as well as despictable examples of selfishness, dishonesty and of course violence. I agree that you are shaped by your environment, but this dosn't free you of you own will. Being poor doesn't make you a saint as well as having money doesn't (necessary ) make you an arse. The earlier study by these guys, regarding generousity, is more interesting. Maybe the sense of less solidarity of some rich folks roots in the circumstances how they became what they are. If they used their elbows all the time and try to use their targets by any means necessary they are of course less likely to have any empathy towards others. In one of the few interesting books about economics - "Freakonomics" - there is an interesting chapter about a guy who sells bagels in a business environment. He delivered the bagels in the morning and put out a (unguarded) box where anybody could put the cash for the bagels into. One interesting observation, among many others, is that the higher the box is located in the offices - where the middle and upper managements sits - the more likely it is that people cheat and don't pay. If someone's interested in the chapter, you can pm me. (Note to the mods: under german copyright law it is legal to make a copy of book chapters for study purposes, I think the US has simular laws, fair use and such)

11-27-10, 01:15 PM	#12
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Based on the Fundraising for NPO class I just finished, I would disagree with the premise that "the rich" are not emphatic. The rich give a lot to NPOs and charities. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.