Somali Pirates Seize Cargo Ship With 24 Aboard

[Gerald]

I agree that rapid small units are important, and also has a lower radar signature, which means a better "invisibility"..

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

Oh, and don't forget that while you're devoting your resources to doing all this, the enemy divisions might be making mincemeat of your front lines.

Well this would not be the entire army.... just read on...

A large conventional unit attempting to pass through the lines to attack somewhere is much more liable to being detected, both before and on the way there.

Being detected and having the enemy being able to react to it is two different things. As I specified a while back a primary target is the enemy C4 systems. If the enemy's ability to communicate and coordinate its army is broken then if one unit detects the attack but is unable to relay that information then the larger defending force can be bypassed.

Airborne and airmobile forces can be shot down by aircraft and SAM sites, ground units counterattacked and destroyed by mobile reserves. And these forces would still fighting at a disadvantage because they don't have heavy equipment or easy resupply.

Its not a question of not having heavy equipment or lack of supply. Such items do fit within the doctrine on a larger scale, a mobility focused mechanized division would for example not have large numbers of hard to transport and supply MBTs but rather lighter APCs with ATGM launchers or ATGM teams.

I'm not saying special forces, guerrilla, airmobile units and the like are useless, they are far from it. But if you devote all your resources to try to raid the enemy army's command and logistics without actually engaging and defeating it, you won't be achieving much.

Its less about the use of those specific units and more the general mind set. Lighter, rapid deploying units over heavy mechanized units. Air dropable armor over ones that need to be transported by ship or to an airbase. At sea smaller faster multi-purpose vessels.

Think of it as structuring all units like the Army's Stryker Brigades, capable of getting anywhere in the world in 96 hours and equipped to handle any mission required.

its high time they start using machine guns on those ships to kill every unannounced boat daring to go near a ship in those waters or at least transfer the cargo to a well armed cargo carrier.

a message needs to be sent load and clear that you WILL die if you go after ships



if it were up to me i would station a US navy ship nearby and send helicopter gunships to any vessel in need of help with orders to kill every person and sink those pirate boats.

very quickly it will be known you cant attack the ships anymore and the pirates will have to find a new way to make money

[Task Force]

We need to go to the old way of "Killing pirates by hanging, or other means"

Originally Posted by Task Force

We need to go to the old way of "Killing pirates by hanging, or other means"

my way you kill the pirates AND destroy their boat so they run out of both and it limits their ability to continue. the pirates are dead and the leaders lost their boat so it hurts them too.


i understand those poor bastards are starving and just trying to survive and in most cases are doing it just to feed their family but the ones in charge also need to be targetted somehow

[Gerald]

Trade ships are well aware that they can risk problems in these waters, and sure they would be able to have light weapons in self-defense, and the pirates know that the ships have some form of defense, so perhaps they are reluctant to attack

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Webster

its high time they start using machine guns on those ships to kill every unannounced boat daring to go near a ship in those waters or at least transfer the cargo to a well armed cargo carrier.

a message needs to be sent load and clear that you WILL die if you go after ships



if it were up to me i would station a US navy ship nearby and send helicopter gunships to any vessel in need of help with orders to kill every person and sink those pirate boats.

very quickly it will be known you cant attack the ships anymore and the pirates will have to find a new way to make money

Not so easy in real life. Earlier this year there was a cargo ship being chased by a small boat. The small boat called the cargo ship telling it in broken English to stop and they were going to board them. The crew freaked out and called the Navy.... the small boat was a Yemeni coast guard patrol boat looking for contraband...

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Vendor

Trade ships are well aware that they can risk problems in these waters, and sure they would be able to have light weapons in self-defense, and the pirates know that the ships have some form of defense, so perhaps they are reluctant to attack

There are a verity of countermeasures short of small arms or heavy weapons available to merchant vessels today...

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Not so easy in real life. Earlier this year there was a cargo ship being chased by a small boat. The small boat called the cargo ship telling it in broken English to stop and they were going to board them. The crew freaked out and called the Navy.... the small boat was a Yemeni coast guard patrol boat looking for contraband...

yes but in that case it was announced but if the boat isnt clearly marked they must do so or its their own fault.

plus ships shouldnt be that close to land anyway IMHO

[Gerald]

@TLAM Strike! Yes, there was a lot of "candy" but companies may want to avoid the cost, so then there will be no upgrade on the ship

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

What does that have to do with anything I've said?

you see, we think guerrilla are so tough mainly because of commie propaganda. they are not that good in real life

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

you see, we think guerrilla are so tough mainly because of commie propaganda. they are not that good in real life

Then why have we been having such a hard time with them?

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Then why have we been having such a hard time with them?

well that is because of the odd political situation in the US
I mean, think about it:
the IJA lost more than a million men to frontal warfare, they lost less than 50000to guerrillas
the nazies lost the war because of the frontal war, not partisans

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Well this would not be the entire army.... just read on...

I didn't mean it would strip the frontline and thus put you at a disadvantage, I meant it in the sense that the enemy might well force you to fight on his own terms if you don't engage him directly.

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Being detected and having the enemy being able to react to it is two different things. As I specified a while back a primary target is the enemy C4 systems. If the enemy's ability to communicate and coordinate its army is broken then if one unit detects the attack but is unable to relay that information then the larger defending force can be bypassed.

But you're relying on the fact that you've disrupted the enemy's communications so thoroughly that it cannot react at all, while if the enemy was properly managing and guarding its communication centers, the whole thing falls apart.

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Its not a question of not having heavy equipment or lack of supply. Such items do fit within the doctrine on a larger scale, a mobility focused mechanized division would for example not have large numbers of hard to transport and supply MBTs but rather lighter APCs with ATGM launchers or ATGM teams.

Certainly it is a question of heavy equipment and supply, since if you have neither you are fighting at a distinct disadvantage. For example, you might put your light division anywhere in friendly or enemy territory, but it will not be able to fight that effectively if it's faced by a heavier formation.

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Its less about the use of those specific units and more the general mind set. Lighter, rapid deploying units over heavy mechanized units. Air dropable armor over ones that need to be transported by ship or to an airbase. At sea smaller faster multi-purpose vessels.

Think of it as structuring all units like the Army's Stryker Brigades, capable of getting anywhere in the world in 96 hours and equipped to handle any mission required.

Sure, lighter units might be more strategically mobile, but they lack the heavy equipment required to fight a land war against a properly equipped enemy. You might get a light brigade anywhere in the world in 96 hours, but it won't be properly equipped to fight an enemy with superior firepower in the open.

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

you see, we think guerrilla are so tough mainly because of commie propaganda. they are not that good in real life

I never said I thought guerrilla are "so though". In fact, I specifically said guerrilla forces aren't very useful on their own.

[tater]

Non-lethal anti-piracy stuff. Meh. 20-30mm CIWS optimized for small surface craft. Done.