Obama supports "Ground Zero Mosque" (of course he does)

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

Yep, caught out again and again. Sadly his way of dealing with that is to turn the subject personally onto me and my muslimhood (whatever the heck that means). Of course the mass volumes of text on me and my personal faith had absolutely nothing to do with the debate. Again we are confronted by another wall of text and obfuscation.

Okay, let's see what I have so far: your Quran is different than the Qurans used by various authors in the field or the one that I have (all of these seem to share a certain characteristic that you deny), you ignore what I say, instead you continue to wrongly accuse me of turning personally against you, you release a personal info about yourself and then accuse others when they come back to that in an originally absolutely harmless context, you become personal yourself by now calling me a liar, and what I can see with my own eyes is just hallucination and the Western specialists of oriental studies who have written long books about the structure of the Quran and the order in which the suras are presented, in general presented in sequence of declining length, all have gotten it wrong since several generations, since they all used to read forged or manipulated Qurans.

That you now even think it is a clever idea to line up with the board'S most prominent and probably most often ignored troll, is just the cream on the cake.

You might be irritated, but I still trust my eyes more than I would trust you, and I also trust more those authors studying an object on basis of western academic tradition, than voices that are in - necessarily biased - defence of said object because they have chosen to submit to it. Yes, your choice and your "Muslimhood" has something to it, even if you claim you cannot see it. Opportunistically selective perception, maybe?

Before typing this, I once again googled a bit on the original issue - and again only found references, links, blogs, book quotes, speeches or whatever it was that all agree on what I say, what I see with my eyes, and what is printed in the books I know as well: that in general the suras are given in sequence of declining length from beginning to end, with the first sura being mentioned as the prominent exception (it is not even one full page).

Suras' length is so much more important than what they say. Bean counting.

I used to think of you as a reasonable guy over the past years, but maybe I overestimated you, or you have changed. And this now is - finally, because you accused me of that so repeatedly - indeed a personally aimed statement, so you can enjoy that I finally fulfill your advanced expectation. Waiting so long should be rewarded, i think.

This debate is absurd, and about nothing important at all, sura length is nothing I see as overly important, this has become about you being snapped over something that you see as somehow personally offending although it is basing on something you have released to the wide public yourself, and when I defend myself against your false accusations, then you call it a wall of text and claim it is non-relevant. Well, this scheme of behavior reminds me of unpleasant experiences I have had with certain people in real life, or read about in the media almost every day.

So the only reasonable consequence at this state of things can be this: bye.

[Konovalov]

More of the same old dross.

That you now even think it is a clever idea to line up with the board'S most prominent and probably most often ignored troll, is just the cream on the cake.

Which doesn't cjhange the fact that you are repeatedly caught out lying
Isn't it amazing that Sky has twice tried to alter his claim to make it more trueish, yet still managed to only make two more false claims on top of his original lie but ridiculously claims that his lies are correct.

You might be irritated, but I still trust my eyes more than I would trust you, and I also trust more those authors studying an object on basis of western academic tradition

errrrrr....your "academic" source was a loony blog about the end of the world and the urgent need to convert jews to jesus

So the only reasonable consequence at this state of things can be this: bye.

Is that a slightly more legible version of the rant Dimitrius07 has been using of late?

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You might be irritated, but I still trust my eyes more than I would trust you

Quoting for the next time you try to tell me how things are in my own country based on a Speigel article.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Is that a slightly more legible version of the rant Dimitrius07 has been using of late?

Why dont you come up with some respectfull opinion yourself.
Somthing Sailor Steve style.
Lets asume that islam is not evill and can coexist peacfully.Still the extremist are the most influential ones and most voiced type of religus leaders.
I see the ones that talk jihad and those that just dont and they do it freely in the name of free speech and liberty.
Where are all those great INFLUENCIAL leaders who preach for peace and tolerance?

Why dont you come up with some respectfull opinion yourself.

There are two lengthy topics on the "ground zero mosque" read them

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

There are two lengthy topics on the "ground zero mosque" read them

And everyones opinion has not changed from the looks of it.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

And everyones opinion has not changed from the looks of it.

Changed Opinions after a debate here in the GT.....when that day comes it'll be the end of the world I tell ya.

HunterICX

[MH]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

And everyones opinion has not changed from the looks of it.

Still it is good and intresting to know what others think allover the world.
If this mosgue got build i thing that arabs in middle east would laugh their asses off marveling american stupidy
What better brain washing material you can ask for.
I really dont think it would be seen as act of good will but weakness.
Mentality here is kind of scewed..

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by MH

Still it is good and intresting to know what others think allover the world.
If this mosgue got build i thing that arabs in middle east would laugh their asses off marveling american stupidy
What better brain washing material you can ask for.
I really dont think it would be seen as act of good will but weakness.
Mentality here is kind of scewed..

But what someone far away thinks of us has never been the reality. They get it wrong almost every time. It is neither good will nor weakness, but strength born of honor.

Ask the Japanese of 1941.

If this mosgue got build i thing that arabs in middle east would laugh their asses off marveling american stupidy

If the mosque got blocked the extremists would be laughing at the propoganda coup.

I really dont think it would be seen as act of good will but weakness.

The weakness would be in violating the constitution on the basis of a media storm built from nothing of substance.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

If the mosque got blocked the extremists would be laughing at the propoganda coup.

That would put you still with no points lost in the game and show you cant be pushed around.
Its all about exploring the limits of tolerance.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Changed Opinions after a debate here in the GT.....when that day comes it'll be the end of the world I tell ya.

HunterICX

How true. It is the art of the 'win' and not the art of meaningful debate!

That would put you still with no points lost in the game and show you cant be pushed around.

It would another step in losing the game and show just how easy it is to push America around.

[JU_88]

He backs it possibly because....

1) Its not a Mosque?
2) Its not on ground zero?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...nd-zero-mosque

*Ducks for cover*

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Things seem awfully heated in America right now; so heated you could probably toast a marshmallow by jabbing it on a stick and holding it toward the Atlantic. Millions are hopping mad over the news that a bunch of triumphalist Muslim extremists are about to build a "victory mosque" slap bang in the middle of Ground Zero.

The planned "ultra-mosque" will be a staggering 5,600ft tall – more than five times higher than the tallest building on Earth – and will be capped with an immense dome of highly-polished solid gold, carefully positioned to bounce sunlight directly toward the pavement, where it will blind pedestrians and fry small dogs. The main structure will be delimited by 600 minarets, each shaped like an upraised middle finger, and housing a powerful amplifier: when synchronised, their combined sonic might will be capable of relaying the muezzin's call to prayer at such deafening volume, it will be clearly audible in the Afghan mountains, where thousands of terrorists are poised to celebrate by running around with scarves over their faces, firing AK-47s into the sky and yelling whatever the foreign word for "victory" is.

I'm exaggerating. But I'm only exaggerating a tad more than some of the professional exaggerators who initially raised objections to the "Ground Zero mosque". They keep calling it the "Ground Zero mosque", incidentally, because it's a catchy title that paints a powerful image – specifically, the image of a mosque at Ground Zero.
When I heard about it – in passing, in a soundbite – I figured it was a US example of the sort of inanely confrontational fantasy scheme Anjem Choudary might issue a press release about if he fancied winding up the tabloids for the 900th time this year. I was wrong. The "Ground Zero mosque" is a genuine proposal, but it's slightly less provocative than its critics' nickname makes it sound. For one thing, it's not at Ground Zero. Also, it isn't a mosque.

Wait, it gets duller. It's not being built by extremists either. Cordoba House, as it's known, is a proposed Islamic cultural centre, which, in addition to a prayer room, will include a basketball court, restaurant, and swimming pool. Its aim is to improve inter-faith relations. It'll probably also have comfy chairs and people who smile at you when you walk in, the monsters.

To get to the Cordoba Centre from Ground Zero, you'd have to walk in the opposite direction for two blocks, before turning a corner and walking a bit more. The journey should take roughly two minutes, or possibly slightly longer if you're heading an angry mob who can't hear your directions over the sound of their own enraged bellowing.
Perhaps spatial reality functions differently on the other side of the Atlantic, but here in London, something that is "two minutes' walk and round a corner" from something else isn't actually "in" the same place at all. I once had a poo in a pub about two minutes' walk from Buckingham Palace. I was not subsequently arrested and charged with crapping directly onto the Queen's pillow. That's how "distance" works in Britain. It's also how distance works in America, of course, but some people are currently pretending it doesn't, for daft political ends.
New York being a densely populated city, there are lots of other buildings and businesses within two blocks of Ground Zero, including a McDonald's and a Burger King, neither of which has yet been accused of serving milkshakes and fries on hallowed ground. Regardless, for the opponents of Cordoba House, two blocks is too close, period. Frustratingly, they haven't produced a map pinpointing precisely how close is OK.

That's literally all I'd ask them in an interview. I'd stand there pointing at a map of the city. Would it be offensive here? What about here? Or how about way over there? And when they finally picked a suitable spot, I'd ask them to draw it on the map, sketching out roughly how big it should be, and how many windows it's allowed to have. Then I'd hand them a colour swatch and ask them to decide on a colour for the lobby carpet. And the conversation would continue in this vein until everyone in the room was in tears. Myself included.
That hasn't happened. Instead, 70% of Americans are opposed to the "Ground Zero mosque", doubtless in many cases because they've been led to believe it literally is a mosque at Ground Zero. And if not . . . well, it must be something significant. Otherwise why would all these pundits be so angry about it? And why would anyone in the media listen to them with a straight face?

According to a recent poll, one in five Americans believes Barack Obama is a Muslim, even though he isn't. A quarter of those who believe he's a Muslim also claimed he talks about his faith too much. Americans aren't dumb. Clearly these particular Americans have either gone insane or been seriously misled. Where are they getting their information?
Sixty per cent said they learned it from the media. Which means it's time for the media to give up.

Seriously, broadcasters, journalists: just give up now. Because either you're making things worse, or no one's paying attention anyway. May as well knock back a few Jagermeisters, unplug the autocue, and just sit there dumbly repeating whichever reality-warping meme the far right wants to go viral this week. What's that? Obama is Gargamel and he's killing all the Smurfs? Sod it. Whatever. Roll titles.