[REL] 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

should I consider removing the camera dat file from the mod? Will that allow my camera to pan closer to the dials?

If you are using TMO yes. You removed the cameras.dat before, as I recall you accidentally deleted every copy of cameras.dat and had to reinstall your game. So that would explain why you are having a problem this time if you haven't done the same. Remove cameras.dat from within the mod folder only. Then install the mod as normal.

[Mescator]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

If you are using TMO yes. You removed the cameras.dat before, as I recall you accidentally deleted every copy of cameras.dat and had to reinstall your game. So that would explain why you are having a problem this time if you haven't done the same. Remove cameras.dat from within the mod folder only. Then install the mod as normal.

Quick comment on this. With TMO's camera you don't rock with the boat. Makes it very difficult to use the TDC in rough seas because it keeps moving.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Mescator

Quick comment on this. With TMO's camera you don't rock with the boat. Makes it very difficult to use the TDC in rough seas because it keeps moving.

That really got to me one day. I found a way to deal with it.

Hit Shift-F2 to go to the interior free camera, and move it from the control room to the TDC. You can work the TDC as usual, and you aren't swaying like a drunken sailor. I'm using TMO2's cameras.dat file.

If someone could fix that, or explain how to fix it, I would be very grateful. I took a look into the cameras.dat file, but it was beyond my understanding. Is there a thread somewhere that explains the workings of that file?


I've got a list of complaints with this mod:
-The drunken TDC view. There's my workaround, but it's a bit tedious to do it every time.

-Playing with map contacts off. If there were some way to distinguish air contacts from surface contacts, I would be a lot happier. I get a message that there is a radar contact, and I check the screen, and nothing shows, so I dive. Come up to radar depth later to find a surface contact just moving onto the screen. It seems the radar range is longer than the display can show.

-The lack of enhanced radar station/TDC on boats that aren't Gato/Balao. I'd love to see this on all the boats. (Except the TDC on S-Boats. If I recall correctly, these boats did not have a TDC.)


Other than that, I'm really loving this mod. Over the past few days, I ran down a radar contact while ducking airplanes, finally moving into visual range to discover I was tracking a fishing boat. Too many airplanes, or I would have taken it out with the deck gun. Oh well, moving back to my objective.

Shortly after that, I got a hydrophone contact, went to radar depth, and chased it down. There were still airplanes around, so I was moving along slowly at radar depth. I got into a position where I could theoretically attack, but I've never taken a shot at more than 3,500 yards before, except the occasional "it's getting away!" desperation shots at a carrier or battleship. I didn't like the range, but I was pretty confident with the solution in the TDC. I fired a spread of six fish at the target. The first two missed astern, the third, fourth, and fifth hit, and the third was even nice enough to explode. The sixth torpedo got lost and decided to wander around in a circle for a while. Fortunately, that one hit was enough to sink the target.

Beautiful stuff.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by razark

I've got a list of complaints with this mod:
-The drunken TDC view. There's my workaround, but it's a bit tedious to do it every time.

Thanks for the feedback.

There is a controller attached to the camera called something like Mech Shocks Pendulum, or words similar in cameras.dat. Remove that and it should remove the drunkenness - there may be another sub child of it too with damage shaking attached.

Originally Posted by razark

-Playing with map contacts off. If there were some way to distinguish air contacts from surface contacts, I would be a lot happier. I get a message that there is a radar contact, and I check the screen, and nothing shows, so I dive. Come up to radar depth later to find a surface contact just moving onto the screen. It seems the radar range is longer than the display can show.

There's two ways, first way is to make it so that you play with map contacts on, but all the ship icons are removed, leaving you to look at the map and see if its an aircraft, but not being able to see the ship. This has probelms with unexpected ships (e.g. new ships that you have added) and you'll also be able to see the aircraft's direction, which is not realistic.

The second way is to make the surface radar station switch to display the air search radar, but the radar station will only display if the currectly on radar can see ground units, so you'll get ground units on the 'air' radar as well as air targets. You'll also either get air targets on the PPI, before you get SV radar, or if I rig it the other way, you'll never get air on the PPI even if you do have SV radar.

Originally Posted by razark

-The lack of enhanced radar station/TDC on boats that aren't Gato/Balao. I'd love to see this on all the boats. (Except the TDC on S-Boats. If I recall correctly, these boats did not have a TDC.)

Soon (TM). The mod isn't finished yet, there's more to add, e.g. distance to track, digital readout of true bearing to radar target, reskin of the AoB dial, add a second triangle to the AoB, add some sort of DRT for manual estimate correction and possible add the TSAC to the top of the fuses over the gyro angle solver.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Thanks for the feedback.

Thank you for this wonderful bit of modding. It's really changed the way I play the game.

Thanks for the camera info. I poked at it a bit and couldn't figure it out. Somehow, I managed not to crash the game, but I wasn't getting anywhere. Do you know which camera is used for the TDC?

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

There's two ways.... This has probelms with unexpected ships (e.g. new ships that you have added) and you'll also be able to see the aircraft's direction, which is not realistic.

I may try that first one after I finish my current patrol. Sounds like it is kinda dependent on what ships are installed, so making a mod wouldn't work for everyone. As for seeing the direction of airplanes, the way they are reported in the game is just backwards. It gives an exact bearing and a vague range, when it should show the exact range and no bearing. Since it already shows bearing, I think I can live with that.

Any input as to which files I would need to look at?

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Soon (TM). The mod isn't finished yet, there's more to add, e.g. distance to track, digital readout of true bearing to radar target, reskin of the AoB dial, add a second triangle to the AoB, add some sort of DRT for manual estimate correction and possible add the TSAC to the top of the fuses over the gyro angle solver.

Looking forward to it. One thing I forgot, the numbers on the inside dial of the Target Course dial are a bit hard to see. I'm doing alright, and I can move the camera to get a closer look, but larger numbers would be nice.

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Thanks for the feedback.

There is a controller attached to the camera called something like Mech Shocks Pendulum, or words similar in cameras.dat. Remove that and it should remove the drunkenness - there may be another sub child of it too with damage shaking attached.

There's two ways, first way is to make it so that you play with map contacts on, but all the ship icons are removed, leaving you to look at the map and see if its an aircraft, but not being able to see the ship. This has probelms with unexpected ships (e.g. new ships that you have added) and you'll also be able to see the aircraft's direction, which is not realistic.

The second way is to make the surface radar station switch to display the air search radar, but the radar station will only display if the currectly on radar can see ground units, so you'll get ground units on the 'air' radar as well as air targets. You'll also either get air targets on the PPI, before you get SV radar, or if I rig it the other way, you'll never get air on the PPI even if you do have SV radar.

Re zooming in the Dials: I removed the camera.dat file again. I did it last night and nothing happened. This time I had the mod deactivated when I removed it. I rebooted and opened a saved game. I was able to zoom the camera close to the dials, so that my problem may be solved. I will see keep my eye on it, and if reverts back to its former habit, I will let you know.

As for bobbing up and down of the radar unit, I can live with it. It is a minor inconvenience. I just noticed it when I was able to zoom to the Dials. Before, I did not notice it. I consider it part of the experience.

As for keeping contacts for planes, I prefer your first proposed solution as I only have TMO2.0 and no extra ships. What files do I eliminate to remove ships from map contacts if I choose to do so? The problem I see here is that if a ship does not have radar, I would typically to play with map contacts on to follow ships and planes. If the ships are removed, I would be required to have two games installed -one with map contacts intact and one with map contacts modified. This seems onerous.

Ideally, it would be nice if someone could mod a "Restore Map for Contacts for Aircraft Only" for those who deleted ships from Map Contacts.

[razark]

Originally Posted by razark

Thanks for the camera info. I poked at it a bit and couldn't figure it out. Somehow, I managed not to crash the game, but I wasn't getting anywhere. Do you know which camera is used for the TDC?

Woohoo! Found it, fixed it, my TDC operator is now sober!

It was the Dummy_Cam_ConningTower node.

[Mescator]

Originally Posted by razark

Come up to radar depth later to find a surface contact just moving onto the screen. It seems the radar range is longer than the display can show.

I noticed this as well, but it's fairly easy to work around. They're outside the display of the PPI Scope but they WILL Spike on the A scope. All you need to do is sit in the A Scope position, put it on sweep and watch both scopes. If you don't see a spike on the A within a couple of revolution's it means it's a plane. If you do, it's a boat and you have a bearing.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Mescator

I noticed this as well, but it's fairly easy to work around. They're outside the display of the PPI Scope but they WILL Spike on the A scope. All you need to do is sit in the A Scope position, put it on sweep and watch both scopes. If you don't see a spike on the A within a couple of revolution's it means it's a plane. If you do, it's a boat and you have a bearing.

Ah! Useful knowledge. I didn't notice if it spiked the A-scope or not.

I'm currently working on seeing if I can remove surface contacts from showing on the map while keeping air contacts.

[I'm goin' down]

When there are several rows of ships, it is very hard to isolate the same one. If you end up plotting ship A in row one for one range/bearing and ship B in row 3 for a second range/bearing, the course will be incorrect. If there is a solution to this, I would like to know. The seems to cause me a lot of trouble when the ships are at long range.

[Mescator]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

When there are several rows of ships, it is very hard to isolate the same one. If you end up plotting ship A in row one for one range/bearing and ship B in row 3 for a second range/bearing, the course will be incorrect. If there is a solution to this, I would like to know. The seems to cause me a lot of trouble when the ships are at long range.

Unfortunately i believe this is something the real captains had to grapple with. With that said, i tend find i can do it. If you have 3 ships in the radar beam and are plotting the middle one, just look for the middle spike next time you do it. Eventually you get a feel for the speed at which the distance changes. You can also figure it out based on the shape of the convoy. I tracked a 5 Ship task force 200nm the other night using the same ship as my point of reference.

[I'm goin' down]

200 nm? Wow. I want your periscope mod. Max Optics 200?

try tracking when there are 30 ships. That is what i found in Leyete Gulf.

[Mescator]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

200 nm? Wow. I want your periscope mod. Max Optics 200?

Haha. I tracked them over 200nm, not they were 200nm away =P. Started near Java and sunk them on the north east coast of Borneo.

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

try tracking when there are 30 ships. That is what i found in Leyete Gulf.

Eh, i don't see it posing a problem to be honest. I'd just get a outlying ship and stick with it. I could be talking out my ass though given i haven't had to track a big convoy yet.

[I'm goin' down]

I do not think I want to delete the map contacts for ships. That would bind me the 3D TDC. I prefer to take my chances with planes, and have the flexibilty to play with map contact enabled in situation where the boat does not have radar.

I am going to take a break from this thread. It has beaten my up pretty good, plus I am sure I have made Nisgeis' and Channings's lives somewhat miserable part of the time. This one hell of a mod. Tough though. Lots and lots of steps to follow as demonstrated by the 60 or so page tutorial. After using it for awhile, I reread Nisgeis tutorial. He recognized almost all of the issues early on. For me the toughest is the speed calculation and getting a good course fix on a large TF or convoy. I did sink a US troop ship in a huge convoy that I tracked for 25K yds. in Leyete Gulf at night. I did not have a good mod for night vision either. I was happy I proved I could work the mod, but a US ship, after all that, sheesh! I ended up following it on sonar and hit it with all six shots.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Mescator

They're outside the display of the PPI Scope but they WILL Spike on the A scope.

I didn't really touch the PPI scope, so it must be like that in stock, I'll have a look at it for the next version.

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

I am sure I have made Nisgeis' and Channings's livers somewhat miserable part of the time.

Nope, we never got any cases of beer from you.