SH3/SH4, what's the difference?

[Flaxpants]

Been playing SH3 now for a couple months and really enjoying it. I am now considering getting SH4. Could anyone sum up for me the main differences that I will notice when I play SH4? (I play SH3 with GWX/Commander).
Here's what I have heard/know about SH4 to date:
It's in the Pacific and it's US subs, and the graphics are a notch up.
There's not as many mods available though there are some good ones out now.
It has a more 'arcady' feel to it. Whatever this means.

What else will I notice about the gameplay, what will I miss about SH3/ gain from SH4? How about stability?- I know SH3 has some issues with saves (I've been lucky so far)- does SH4 have an achilles heel?

Cheers in advance,
F

[tomoose]

on how you play the games. I assume, due to you using GWX etc ,that you prefer realism/authenticity.
You will enjoy SH4 however the stock game comes with a few bugs (i.e. a very target rich environment, repetition of specific missions and enemy aircraft up the wazoo to name a few).

Having said that, play it stock for a little while just to get the feel for it then I'd HIGHLY recommend one of the supermods (either Trigger Maru Overhauled or Real Fleet Boat). These mods address pretty much every bug that can be fixed or tweaked. There are still a couple which can't be fixed but they are not showstoppers). In addition to TMO or RFB you can add the campaign mod Run Silent Run Deep which puts shipping in it's appropriate historical location/lanes and includes famous sea battles at the right time and place, tweaks air patrol time/places etc. In short, TMO and RFB address game and gameplay issues whereas RSRD addresses historical accuracy.

Personally, I play SH3 with GWX for my U-Boat in the Atlantic fix and I play SH4 for my USN boat in the Pacific fix. I love 'em both for different reasons.

[sharkbit]

I've only played SH4 a short time, but a few things I've noticed:

The biggest-You'll miss Commander. If you could talk JScones to do a Commander for SH4 and promise him that no one will complain about their fridge magnets falling off their fridge, you'd be nominated for sainthood.

Crew management is far superior in SH4 than in SH3. No more babysitting the crew. SH4 has 3 automatically rotating watches.

SH4 is much more stable. No more long waits for the game to load with SH4.

There seem s to be a lot of complaints about the number of airplanes in SH4(modded) but there are tweeks/mods that you can do to reduce this if you feel that way.

I can't speak for escort AI yet as I have had few real run ins with them.

TMO and RFB are both awesome super mods. I've flip flopped between both and both are good. I've yet to try the latest version of TMO though. And make sure you load up the Run Silent Run Deep Campaign mod for whatever super mod you use. It adjusts the campaigns to more historical accuracy.

The "mission" you get assigned in SH4 are more various and interesting than the "Patrol grid xxxx for 24 hours." Most are anti-shipping, but there are lifeguard and photo recon as well.

You'll need to rethink your use of the TDC. It is different in fleet boats compared to U-boats.

For me at least, SH4 will never replace SH3. I play both with equal fervor and enjoy both but I think I lean more towards SH3.

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by tomoose

Having said that, play it stock for a little while just to get the feel for it then ....

IMHO, if you've played SH3/GWX for a while and are moving to SH4, I'd respecfully disagree with tomoose. I would start out with one of the super mods. I think playing stock might give you a bad taste in your mouth and may bias your opinion on the game.

I hadn't heard many good things about stock SH4 and I jumped right in with TMO without even trying stock. I figured it would be a complete waste of time to try out stock first since I was already experienced with subsimming and what super mods do for the game with SH3/GWX.
I know I got pretty bored with stock SH3 pretty quick when I first got it and didn't want to waste the time doing the same thing with SH4 and my limited gaming time.

[h.sie]

There is also an Atlantic theatre Mod for SH4 if you prefer to play UBoats. It's called Operation Monsun. Lurker_hlb did a great job in my opinion. But some things in SH4 cannot be fixed, as for example some missing sounds and the atmosphere. In my opinion, SH4 is monotonous / sterile while SH3/GWX gives me a little bit of the feeling to be in a Uboat during war. So I went back to SH3/GWX3 after some weeks of playing SH4.

SH3:

"Destroyer in attack run, sir!" (panic)
"Splash, splash" (Waterbombs dropping).
"Waterbombs" (panic)
"Oh, nooooo" (panic)
"Ka-booom ka-booom"


SH4:

"Splash, splash"
"Ka-booom ka-booom"

[tomoose]

Sharkbit has a good point. If you are already well experienced in the SH3 world then, as he says, go straight to a modded SH4. The only real advantage to playing stock first is that you would then REALLY appreciate the modded version,LOL. Although as Sharkbit correctly points out, depending on your patience/temprament, stock SH4 could put you off. Then again, you've probably lived through the early (and painful) days of stock SH3 and appreciate what GWX has done. Ultimately, your call.

[Flaxpants]

Cheers Guys, clearly a different kettle of fish then. I have never actually played the stock version of SH3 so I reckon it'll be the same story here- just dive in with the best mods from the outset, thanks for letting me know where to look for those.
Much appreciate you all taking the time and look forward to giving it a try!

[razark]

I was testing something last night, and ended up removing all mods and loading up the stock game.

I'd suggest that everyone try it. It really drove home to me just how much the modders have brought to this game.

As with SH3, SH4 can be problematic with saves. I've ended 3-4 careers because I couldn't get back to port, no matter how many previous saves I attempted. At some point, the time compression would not work without slowing the computer at anything above 128. (I have a fast quad core system too.) When this buggy behavior occurred, it was almost inevitable that the game would crash in the near future, especially during screenshots. Many a time, I could not proceed beyond a certain latitude or longitude without a crash. Hopefully, you will fare better.

For my experience, SH3, though buggy with saves, was considerably more stable. In both cases, I try to follow the standard rules of not saving underwater or when ships are present, etc... Sharkbit is correct about the faster loading of saved games. It's a treat indeed.

I haven't actually tried the mods with SH4 yet, as I've been so busy with SH3 + GWX. I'm currently downloading TMO. Guess we'll see how that goes.

Good luck with your campaigns!

[Matt86]

Originally Posted by razark

I was testing something last night, and ended up removing all mods and loading up the stock game.

I'd suggest that everyone try it. It really drove home to me just how much the modders have brought to this game.

Agreed. And if you can take it one step further and try 1.0 - I played like that for a week and it makes even stock 1.5 look polished...

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by h.sie

SH3:

"Destroyer in attack run, sir!" (panic) (Has never worked, unless someone managed to fix the sonarman's graph file recently )
"Splash, splash" (Waterbombs dropping). (added by mod? Otherwise audible only in hydrophone If I remember correctly )
"Waterbombs" (panic)
"Oh, nooooo" (panic) (something spliced onto the end of the "wasserbomb" Wav file im guessing)
"Ka-booom ka-booom"


SH4:

"Splash, splash"
"Depth charges in the water" <------- all thats really missing.
"Ka-booom ka-booom"

Its funny how people like to embellish their pet game. Id lay out my objective analysis of both titles, but frankly, I just don't give a damn anymore. To the OP, i say, Play what you want. Each game has it's plus's, minus's, and its fans.

What Ducimus said!

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Play what you want. Each game has it's plus's, minus's, and its fans.

That's the spirit!!

[Sailor Steve]

No! SH3 rules! SH4 suxors!

No, wait - wrong forum! SH4 rocks! SH3 drools!

Actually I like talking about this stuff.

Originally Posted by Flaxpants

It's in the Pacific and it's US subs, and the graphics are a notch up.

And in Operation Monsun you have a perfectly good u-boat campaign as well.

There's not as many mods available though there are some good ones out now.

There are some great ones out there now. The only thing that's missing is the little stuff - all the cool bridges and locks and flags and antennae going up and down - the oddball things that make SH3 cool. If that doesn't bother you, SH4 is great.

Oh, and no Commander. That's what keeps me playing SH3. Otherwise, SH4 is an advance.

SH4 has much better crew management, because they pretty much manage themselves. But they broke the part where "Man the deck gun!" moves them to the deck gun. You have to do that yourself. "Battle stations" moves more crew into the control room and puts all three watch shifts on alert. Little stuff like that is cool.

It has a more 'arcady' feel to it. Whatever this means.

I have no clue. I've never noticed anything that made me think arcade, unless they mean the fact that there's no WE assistance - it's either all auto or all manual - no in-between.

What else will I notice about the gameplay, what will I miss about SH3/ gain from SH4? How about stability?- I know SH3 has some issues with saves (I've been lucky so far)- does SH4 have an achilles heel?

Stability? As far as I've seen SH4 is much more stable. That said, I'm not running near as many mods with SH4, so that may make a difference I haven't seen.

Now I just spent a whole lot of time and words saying what Ducimus said in much less of both. And he's right about making a decision. I just wanted to help inform your decision.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I bought both around march time this year but have yet to install SHIV, not because of anything bad but there is just so much in SHIII still to do.

I will install and play one day, but that day hasn't yet arrived.

Just do it, what have you got to lose?