Dutch Muslim Group Fined for Holocaust Cartoon

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I think he didn't survive the "Get tough on trolls week" a few months back.

Yep

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

and the six million number is commonly accepted as being for jews only.

But does that mean it is an accurate number or simply a popular number?

cf my signature

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Platapus

But does that mean it is an accurate number or simply a popular number?

cf my signature

yup, that's exactly how it goes. in poland it is more politically correct just to say "seven millions" JEWS. no one gives a damn about their passports. polish jews, hungarian, dutch, french, english, german etc-nope, they were simply jews.

[Schroeder]

Here in Germany it said to be 6 million murdered Jews (Wikipedia says between 5.6 and 6.3 million). I think it is pretty accurate as the Nazis (and Germans in general...) kept a record of everything. The lists with the names of the victims do still exist as far as I know.

[Jimbuna]

I'm not vouching for the accuracy of the figures below but this will give some indication of how many people died:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Here in Germany it said to be 6 million murdered Jews (Wikipedia says between 5.6 and 6.3 million). I think it is pretty accurate as the Nazis (and Germans in general...) kept a record of everything. The lists with the names of the victims do still exist as far as I know.

That is actually a sticking point with some researchers. The Germans did keep accurate records and if you want to know about how much materials were used in the camps, that information is there. However concerning the lists of people killed, some researchers have some problems with the accuracy of the records. They are not denying that it happened, they are just questioning the records. Unfortunately, in today's climate, any,, question seems to brand one an anti-Semite.

We need to get past this emotional reaction if accurate, correct, and complete historical research and analysis can occur.

This is why I like to differentiate between the actual deniers and those questioning specific data.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by kranz

yup, that's exactly how it goes. in poland it is more politically correct just to say "seven millions" JEWS. no one gives a damn about their passports. polish jews, hungarian, dutch, french, english, german etc-nope, they were simply jews.

I remember a discussion I had with a couple of friends in school once about this. This Girl and Me had to explain to a friend how even though she was not a member of the Jewish faith as her parents were members of the 'Jewish Race' IE ethnic Jewish and she would be considered a Jew by the Nazis. We explained how that being Jewish is both an act of religious affiliation and or the state of being descended from a particular ethnic group by blood.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But the non-jews in the camps are usually counted separately, and the six million number is commonly accepted as being for jews only. Including Soviet POWs, Romani (Gypsies), and other groups raised the total to anywhere from eleven million to twenty-one million.

Including Stalin's purges in Russia and Russian citizens killed by the Germans, and of course military losses, the total number of deaths in WW2 rises to an estimated fifty-five million people.

Pretty staggering when you think about it.

Also around half the total people killed were Soviet, over 26 million.

[kranz]

I wanted to add sth to what Schroeder said: yeah, they kept a record but I remember when I was in the Auschwitz death camp the guide told us that the number of people killed here can only be given approximately bcoz of the fact that indeed-the majority of transports had to undergo a full registration process with stating who can work and who "cannot" but there were plenty of transports which avoided this procedure and as he said "went straight to the gas chambers" with only the number of carts and the city of the previous camp registered. Another thing, especially when we are talking about total number of Jews would be the Einsatzgruppen working on the east- the conditions in which they were killing. The values given by either wikipedia or books are always "more or less".

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I'm not vouching for the accuracy of the figures below but this will give some indication of how many people died:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

Here are the figures for WWI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties