Dutch Muslim Group Fined for Holocaust Cartoon

mookiemookie · 08-19-10, 08:33 PM

Quote:

A Dutch Muslim group was fined 2,500 euros ($3,200) for publishing a cartoon which suggested the Holocaust was made up or exaggerated by Jews, a Dutch appeals court ruled on Thursday.

The court in the western city of Arnhem overruled an acquittal handed down by a Dutch lower court, saying the cartoon, published on the website of the Arab European League's (AEL) in 2006, was "unnecessarily hurtful."

"The court points out that the European Court of Human Rights, which considers freedom of speech of paramount importance and defends it thoroughly, makes an exception for the denial or trivialization of the Holocaust," the court said.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=11438032

What a crock. How am I supposed to condemn the Muslims getting all uppity about people drawing Mohammed cartoons when they get fined for drawing Holocaust cartoons.

That being said, I have nothing but respect for our Jewish friends, but it really is a case of what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Quote:

The Dutch group says it had no intention of disputing the Holocaust, but wanted instead to highlight what it described as double standards in free speech.

Touché.

ETR3(SS) · 08-19-10, 09:09 PM

Interesting. Is this meant to be a message to Europe and/or the world that they can get away with anything and that it really isn't fair?

Gerald · 08-19-10, 09:18 PM

to those who see it seriously!

DarkFish · 08-20-10, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

What a crock. How am I supposed to condemn the Muslims getting all uppity about people drawing Mohammed cartoons when they get fined for drawing Holocaust cartoons.

The difference is that Muhammad is about religious beliefs, while the Holocaust isn't. If some Muslim group made a cartoon about Moses, there'd be no problem.

The Muhammad cartoons are about beliefs. They don't say anything derogatory about any person, only about their beliefs. Where would this world go if we couldn't counter and ridicule another person's beliefs? Half of all the scientific progress of the last centuries would not have happened and we'd still live in the Middle Ages.

The Holocaust cartoons are about a real-life event, with real people involved, with real deaths and real feelings of hurt.
If your dad got killed by the Nazi's, and I told you "Your dad is a scamp, that damn fraud only pretended to be killed to gain compassion, and you hypocrite just play along!", wouldn't you be angry and hurt as well? Denying the Holocaust is exactly that.

Quote:

the western city of Arnhem

Wait - what?! Arnhem is about as far east as you can get

The city I grew up in, and lived until a year ago. Got good memories about it

Platapus · 08-20-10, 08:01 AM

Quote:

... suggested the Holocaust was made up or exaggerated

Well, which is it? There is a huge difference between someone who believes the holocaust is fake and someone who believes that some of the details of the holocaust may have been exaggerated.

Stealth Hunter · 08-20-10, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Well, which is it? There is a huge difference between someone who believes the holocaust is fake and someone who believes that some of the details of the holocaust may have been exaggerated.

Quote:

The cartoon shows two men in Auschwitz looking at several dead bodies. "I don't think they are Jews," says one man. The one man replies: "We have to get to the 6,000,000 (figure) somehow'. Six million Jews were killed during the Holocaust.

Not any worse content there than what the Internet Hate Machine puts out. They weren't denying its existence. On that note, the "I don't think they are Jews" part really is what stands out the most. And it's not entirely unfounded. Auschwitz was a concentration camp that also held a large populace of homosexuals, gypsies, Socialists and Communists (among other political dissidents), and captured soldiers as well (Russians and even a few Romanians). This fact should not be overlooked when discussing the Holocaust. Regrettably, it's only ever briefly discussed. You don't hear much about people like Heinz Alt, the Salomon family, Henri Landwirth, Lev Rebet, etc.

tater · 08-20-10, 08:32 AM

I agree with the OP.

Freedom of expression exists, or it doesn't. Let everyone publish whatever they want.

Note that Europe has some odd laws in that respect post-WW2 which is likely why this special case happened. I personally still disagree, but that is European reality.

AVGWarhawk · 08-20-10, 08:57 AM

I'm offended with being offended.

Offenses need to stop.

Weiss Pinguin · 08-20-10, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I'm offended with being offended.

Offenses need to stop.

I think you need to tone down your tone there, Mister, lest you upset someone

AVGWarhawk · 08-20-10, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weiss Pinguin

I think you need to tone down your tone there, Mister, lest you upset someone

I find that remark offensive. Might be a bit off color also.

I don't know what color but I will find one.

Weiss Pinguin · 08-20-10, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I find that remark offensive. Might be a bit off color also.

I don't know what color but I will find one.

I didn't want to do this, but now that you've brought color into I have no choice

Your mom!

frau kaleun · 08-20-10, 10:00 AM

*sigh*

This is why we can't have nice things.

Jimbuna · 08-20-10, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I find that remark offensive. Might be a bit off color also.

I don't know what color but I will find one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weiss Pinguin

I didn't want to do this, but now that you've brought color into I have no choice

Your mom!

Huh?

Bubblehead1980 · 08-20-10, 11:08 AM

oh no oh no, we must be tolerant of the muslims intolerance

Remember guys, they get a special set of rules.

August · 08-20-10, 11:12 AM

Quote:

The Dutch group says it had no intention of disputing the Holocaust, but wanted instead to highlight what it described as double standards in free speech.

The only double standard I see is that nobody is threatening to behead the group for creating their cartoon.

08-19-10, 09:09 PM	#2
ETR3(SS) Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between test depth and periscope depth Posts: 3,021 Downloads: 175 Uploads: 16	Interesting. Is this meant to be a message to Europe and/or the world that they can get away with anything and that it really isn't fair? __________________ USS Kentucky SSBN 737 (G) Comms Div 2003-2006 Qualified 19 November 03 Yes I was really on a submarine.

08-19-10, 09:18 PM	#3
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	No, not really, this provides clear gives the wrong signals to those who see it seriously! __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

08-20-10, 08:57 AM	#8
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I'm offended with being offended. Offenses need to stop. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

08-20-10, 08:32 AM	#7
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I agree with the OP. Freedom of expression exists, or it doesn't. Let everyone publish whatever they want. Note that Europe has some odd laws in that respect post-WW2 which is likely why this special case happened. I personally still disagree, but that is European reality.

08-20-10, 10:00 AM	#12
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	sigh This is why we can't have nice things.

08-20-10, 11:08 AM	#14
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,100 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	oh no oh no, we must be tolerant of the muslims intolerance Remember guys, they get a special set of rules.