One Judge vs 7 million votes

[Bilge_Rat]

I am amazed that you still have people arguing that discrimination against gays is acceptable in a western liberal society.

If 7 million voters had voted to outlaw marriages between african-americans and persons of other races or adopted a law to prevent african-americans from moving into white neighborhoods, how many here would be defending the people's choice?

A bill of right exists to protect the rights of the minority from oppression by a majority.

Canada has had same-sex marriages since 2005 and it is a total non-issue here.

Sometimes I wonder if the USA is in the same century as the rest of the western world.

[August]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

I am amazed that you still have people arguing that discrimination against gays is acceptable in a western liberal society.

Nobody is discriminating against gays. They have the same freedom to marry a person of the opposite sex as anyone else.

Sometimes I wonder if the USA is in the same century as the rest of the western world.

We're not at all the same as you and you should be very, very afraid of us.

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

A bill of right exists to protect the rights of the minority from oppression by a majority.
.

Then you would approve the drilling of oil in ANWAR, The rejection of Obama care, The reduction of tax on tobacco products, The rejection of abortion as law. All those things are minority in support.

Perhaps you should rethink your argument.

[Moeceefus]

At any rate, over time religion is slowly being phased out of our government. Soon enough we wont have to squabble over such petty issues and we will become better at minding our own business I hope. Then maybe we can start to focus on the real problems facing this nation.

All those things are minority in support.

Oh the oppression

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by The Third Man

Perhaps you should rethink your argument.

Its not an argument, it's Constitutional Law 101. The basic premise of a Bill of Rights is that a majority will always be able, through the power of the crowd or the ballot, to protect its interest. The Bill of Rights exists to garantee all citizens equal rights and protection, whether they are african-americans, native americans, visible minorities, women, jews and even gays.

In 1982, Canada adopted a constitutional Charter of Rights which was closely modeled on the U.S. Bill of Rights. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, you had a series of court challenges against the existing marriage laws as being discriminatory against gays under the charter of rights. They all succeeded. In 2005, the federal Parliament conceded and modified all laws including the marriage laws so it would apply equally to heterosexual and same-sex couples.

Unless the US Supreme Court takes an extremely narrow interpretation or the US Constitution is amended, you should eventually have the exact same result in the USA.

When the Conservative government was elected here in 2006, they toyed with the idea of adopting a law that would give same-sex couples the same rights and obligations, but call it a "civil union" instead of "marriage". They finally dropped the idea since it made no sense to revive the debate for a purely cosmetic change.

Conservatives up here realize that the real battleground is not social, but economic, i.e: lower taxes, less/smarter governement regulations, more favourable business climate, etc.


I live in Montreal which has a reputation as an ultra-liberal city. I live a mainstream life, live in the suburbs, commute to work. We don't know any gay couple or gay family, none live in our neighborhood or have children in our son's school, as far as I can tell. In the past 5 years, I have only met 2 gay couples, both time because I had to review their wills. If it was'nt for the news media covering events in the gay neighborhoods or the odd time I see a gay couple holding hands downtown, I would not even know Montreal has a large gay community.

Legalization of same-sex marriages has had zero impact on canadian society.

Trying to tell responsible adults how they should live their personal lives is a losing and a loser issue.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Then go ahead and take the first step. Start telling people who are unable to have kids for one reason or another that their marriage has been declared null and void.

...or just leave it as it is, and understand that male/female relationships contain a potential that homosexual relations don't, and understand that the current tradition respects that potential benefit to society - one of which gay marriage could NEVER provide.

As I said before, I not necessarily against civil unions. I really don't give a damn. I just don't like the disingenous method of the debate, and the all-or-nothing approach.