In A Pickle

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by gollum65

I'm just going to call it what it is: sheer luck. After about 2 hours of cat and mouse I was able to make it to deep water and get away. As it turns out those destroyers were part of a whole convoy and it took me most of the night to get to safe water so I could reload my torpedo tubes but at least I made it.

Thanks for all the tips guys. Couldn't have done it without you guys.

Way to go, gollum65! Tough situation but, you came through, shining like gold. Somehow, I had a feeling you would pull through.

[sergei]

Originally Posted by gollum65

I'm just going to call it what it is: sheer luck. After about 2 hours of cat and mouse I was able to make it to deep water and get away.

Glad you made it.

What you have just done is gain valuable combat experience.

[Diopos]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

There's always two ways to look at things like that.

a.) How it works in real life.
and
b.) How it really works in game.

I tend to focus on B when writing tutorials, tips or what not.

Your focus is correct.

Since you have already walked "the wild side" of the game () let me ask a question. If a lone DD pings (ingame), isn't it listening too (via the "swing" mechanic between active and passive status you describe in the manual)? What I am actually asking is that, regardless of how the game-code handles it, in game-play terms isn't the lone DD atempting to behave as pinging and listening simulteneously?

[gollum65]

I'm by no means even close to an expert. But I've watched my share of sub specials on the military channel and everywhere else (a few sub specials this week on the military channels btw). To me it's about the definition of the word we're using "listening". The way I always understood sonar was that the active pinging was basically no more then a range finding device. They send out a ping then "listen" to see how quickly it bounces back and that tells them how far the object is. While passive sonar is used to "listen" for distinct sounds the vessel makes (screws, water passing over the hull, metallic noises, etc...).

[Diopos]

Nope. It is both a "sensing" and a range estimating apparatus. You can reveal a "silent running" sub with active sonar while you may have missed it on passive sonar.

[timmyg00]

IRL If the active rangefinding portion of the sonar is being operated, it would probably be best if the operator was not actually listening to the passive receiver, lest his ears be blasted by the ping. In fact, there may be an interlock that “blanks” the passive hydrophone receiver section while active sonar is being operated, to keep the operator’s ears, or the receiver itself, from being damaged.


SO yes, the capability possibly exists to try to listen passively while pinging, but it might not be a very wise thing to do.


TG

[Diopos]

Guys if you can't locate, record, trace, listen the echo of your ping what the hell are you pinging for in the first place ?



.

[timmyg00]

The ping might be received and processed automatically by the sonar system ... speed of sound being about 1560m/sec in seawater, you’d have to be really fast to time that incoming echo even if the target was at the limit of the active sonar’s effective range.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Diopos

regardless of how the game-code handles it, in game-play terms isn't the lone DD atempting to behave as pinging and listening simulteneously?

It tries, but it has its moment's where it fails miserably. The "one sensor at a time" mechanic also applies to YOUR sensor's. Next time your doing a submerged periscope attack, keep the scope down, and enjoy the passive sonar as reported by your AI crewman or map contacts. Then raise the scope when your targets in visual range, and watch the sonar contacts disappear. With the scope still up, ask your sonarman to follow the nearest contact and see what happens.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

With the scope still up, ask your sonarman to follow the nearest contact and see what happens.

That part annoys me. I lower the scope, get the sonar following the nearest contact, then up the scope.

[Diopos]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

It tries, but it has its moment's where it fails miserably. The "one sensor at a time" mechanic also applies to YOUR sensor's. Next time your doing a submerged periscope attack, keep the scope down, and enjoy the passive sonar as reported by your AI crewman or map contacts. Then raise the scope when your targets in visual range, and watch the sonar contacts disappear. With the scope still up, ask your sonarman to follow the nearest contact and see what happens.

He, he. The extent of "shortcuts" the devs used in the game engine is unbelievable, isn't it? For me the "apocalypsis" was when I realized the fact that the map scale does not take into account latitude. "Flatland" anyone?


.

[Ducimus]

Game world is about 25% larger then in real life due to that flat map.

For fun, go here:
http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-go...calculator.htm

and try making a plot from say.. pearl harbor to the bungo straights, and then do the same in game, and note the distance variation.

[green_abobo]

Originally Posted by gollum65

I was running silent but stopped so my crew would reload the tubes. I had fired all 8 fish at the destroyers and felt I needed more if I had any shot at escaping (if I could sink one....).

And I guess I'm unclear then on the question of pinging. Could anyone else verify how it works?

as far as i know,in-game, destroyers indeed use both active and passive sonar.

active being the "ping" (similar to a fleet boat's hydrophone active ping ability to determine range and bearing to contact,or depth under keel) which gives away your bearing and depth, after it bounces off you and back to them,so they can set a course for your position, and also know how deep to set the depth charge(s).

IDK if it is a mod specific function, or historically correct, but in-game, in the case of securing from silent run to reload/repair,you run the risk of being "heard" as it is described as being "noisy". especially in shallower water,in relatively calm weather conditions.

i imagine this also has to do has to do with the functionality of the escort's sonar capability from one mod compared to another.

i always try and use the rule; the deeper,choppier,with the least amount of noise possible, the better.

if the weather isn't complying,you must be even more vigilant in choosing whether or not it is safe to secure from silent running.

[Diopos]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Game world is about 25% larger then in real life due to that flat map.

For fun, go here:
http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-go...calculator.htm

and try making a plot from say.. pearl harbor to the bungo straights, and then do the same in game, and note the distance variation.

Have done this:
Midway to Oshima (island S/SE out of of Tokyo Gulf) on GoogleEarth. Marked Lats/Longs for 10 points along the path. Transferred them to SH4 map. The projected path was a modest curve of course. The in-game distance/range calculation brings tears in my eyes (for varius reasons ).

My initial observation was:
Take two meridians which differ by, say 1°.
Go to the equator and measure their distance.
Do the same at latitude, say 60°.
Measure distance and compare with above. The distance will be the same ........
Almost stopped playing the game ....

Anyway, I'll stop beating the dead horse.....

[gollum65]

Thanks guys. I stand corrected on how sonar works and I think I have a better understanding of everything now. Much appreciated.