Federal Judge blocks parts of the Arizona immigration law

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

If they're willing to brave a 2 day trek through a burning desert, I'm not sure how a fence would stop anyone. They'd just climb it or tunnel under it, like they're already doing: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...012601963.html

It'd be wasted money.

That is why in my opinion a BUNCH of money is needed to make a boatload of drones. Fences or other defence measures have failed. Drones do far more to spot the groups of illegals crossing overground.

[ETR3(SS)]

There's one surefire way to stem the flow of illegals, annex Mexico!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

There's one surefire way to stem the flow of illegals, annex Mexico!

There was one faction that proposed exactly that after the Mexican-American war of 1846-1848. I'm not saying it is really the answer, or even an answer, but I can see a couple of benefits:

All Mexicans would become Americans, which would solve the "illegal" question.

Mexico would be brought up to American standards, ending the desire to go from there to here.

The US southern border would become much smaller, and much easier to patrol (or even wall off if desired).

And those are observations, not suggestions, and not to be taken seriously.

[ETR3(SS)]

Oh it's by no means meant to be a serious answer, and I think you understood that too. If we did annex Mexico, all of the violence that happens down there with the various cartels would then be our problem to deal with. Mexico's economy isn't something to laugh at but it wouldn't last as all the manufacturing jobs there would leave in search of cheaper labor elsewhere. So the cons outweigh the pros to this one.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Oh it's by no means meant to be a serious answer, and I think you understood that too.

Oh, absolutely. I just wanted to point out that at one point it was considered seriously.

I agree that the cons outway the pros, but the pros are interesting.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

That is why in my opinion a BUNCH of money is needed to make a boatload of drones. Fences or other defence measures have failed. Drones do far more to spot the groups of illegals crossing overground.

Is that your answer for everything? Drones? I mean, I can kind of understand that because drones are cool and there are a lot of very good reasons to use them, but do you ever stop and think about any kind of pre-emptive solution?

The question here is not how to stop illegals from getting across the border, it's why they want to get across the border, why they do it illegally, and why people are opposed to immigration from Mexico.

Illegals, much like legals, come here in search of a better life. Who can blame them for that? Pretty much every American's ancestors came here for the same reason. Unless they're racist, few would have a problem with Mexican immigrants. They're a great source of cheap labor, and within a few generations they're indistinguishable from all the wonderful white people, save for copper skin and Catholicism and Tex-Mex. They only come here illegally because we make it so hard for them to come here legally.

So why are people opposed to Mexican immigration? Well, part of it is because an influx of immigrants drives down labor costs by virtue of the very elementary mechanisms of supply and demand. However, since most Mexican immigrants are very unskilled and cannot speak proper English, they only drive labor costs down in industries nobody wants to work for, anyway. They do have a tendency to supplant the native workforce after a few generations in-country because they have been "Americanized", but WTF kind of reason is that to keep them out? We want the Mexicans out because we don't want to compete with them for jobs? ******* you!. We might as well go back to the turn of the century when people beat the crap out of Irish immigrants for the same reason. What is it with this country and wanting to beat up drunk Catholics? Seriously...

I could go on, but I'm going to just go ahead and give you all the answers because I don't feel like typing ten more pages concerning the arguments over immigration and why we get pissed off at illegal immigration even though we created the circumstances for it. The reason is that this is a politicized issue. As with every issue in a two-party system, this one has divided people along two sides they often know nothing about. Democrats support amnesty and whatever other junk they're espousing these days without realizing that their leaders are only in favor of illegal immigration because they are courting the latino vote with all kinds of BS social initiatives. Republicans hate illegal immigration because they've been convinced that immigrants are stealing jobs and destroying American values or something, as if that had ever happened before, without realizing that the real reason they hate immigration is because their leaders are against the Democratic stance.

The point is that this is a political fight more than anything else, and what is your answer? Drones? The border patrol budget as of today is enough to place agents at 40-ft intervals along the entire US-Mexican border at the rate of $35 per hour, not including what the DEA spends to police the same area. Given that, do you really imagine that anybody's goal is to keep illegal immigrants out? It's not even a conspiracy, it's just the sum total of a bunch of parties with goals that do not include immigration in anything other than a lip-service political context. How would drones ever fix that? Do you even think about this stuff?

[Zachstar]

Do you ever think of anything other than "labor costs" and Union busting? Because frankly that is all I ever hear from your walls of text.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Do you ever think of anything other than "labor costs" and Union busting? Because frankly that is all I ever hear from your walls of text.

I guess if you don't read the "walls of text" you don't have to answer the questions. Easy way out.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Do you ever think of anything other than "labor costs" and Union busting? Because frankly that is all I ever hear from your walls of text.

There's a good reason for that and it falls under the classification of economics. Economics, along with politics, make the world go 'round, my friend, not just whatever idea you happened to come up with. My point is that the issue is bigger than what you see. You can't very well understand something without knowing how it works, and I am attempting to illustrate how it works.

Of course, you could always throw drones or money or whatever at the problem to no effect. That seems to be the popular strategy anymore.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I guess if you don't read the "walls of text" you don't have to answer the questions. Easy way out.

I have to subject myself to these foolish walls of text. Where it runs around the point that "More people = Cheaper labor and easier union busting & union teachers ruin education"

It's not funny nor is it cool. It's the usual bullcrap cheaping of labor done in this country. The labor by citizens that do backbreaking or long and demanding work. And frankly both parties do this.

Illegial immigration has given the companies that can hire mass amounts with the excuse "Nobody else will do the job" A reason to keep wages at minimum without benefits. Major pressure on the job and the threat of instant job termination without any kind of oversight. If the problem were under control they would be forced to hire citizens that may not put up with their bullcrap when working for a fast food joint would be far better. They would be forced to offer better wages and more benefits then guess what? Americans would want to do the work again.

However, That concept of companies having to pay a fair wage to support their communities is one of the most feared outcomes of many businesses out there that have gotten used to exploiting people who have nothing to use to bargain with. With drones and a massive undertaking to issue heavy fines to businesses while at the same time giving people here illegally the resources they need to become citizens, the means to demand better conditions and better wages and unlawful immigration will plummet.

You want walls of text there you go. Want not? Here it is in simple form.

Acting like unlawful immigration is no big deal and good for business is union busting plain and simple.