Lifeboats

[Sgt_Raa]

Originally Posted by privateer

Now who would place a damage zone on a base node for the Survivors
that would allow them to be destroyed and then replaced with a dead body by using a custom zone in the zone.cfg?

Someone should make this mod for the homicidal ones like me... lol
im not that good yet... i can install mods but not make em!
it is known im sure that german uboats wouldnt take prisoners alot so they would just kill em off...
correct me if im wrong

Originally Posted by Sgt_Raa

it is known im sure that german uboats wouldnt take prisoners alot so they would just kill em off...
correct me if im wrong

Stand by for the Broad Sides you're gonna get.

[Sailor Steve]

Germany declared war on the United States on December 11, 1941 - my dad's 14th birthday. On that day you can start shooting American ships.

[Sgt_Raa]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Germany declared war on the United States on December 11, 1941 - my dad's 14th birthday. On that day you can start shooting American ships.

And italian?... coz the 6 nuterals i sunk were italian?

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by Sgt_Raa

Someone should make this mod for the homicidal ones like me... lol
im not that good yet... i can install mods but not make em!
it is known im sure that german uboats wouldnt take prisoners alot so they would just kill em off...
correct me if im wrong

Towards the front-end of the war, uboots did rescue survivors. Then one day they started getting attacked whilst doing so... to me it's a no-brainer, don't pick up survivors, and that's what happened. Occassionally a uboot commander would sail some distance away and radio in clear the last position of the sinking vessel. I guess as allied air cover increased in the Atlantic this also reduced...

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by Sgt_Raa

And italian?... coz the 6 nuterals i sunk were italian?

Italian, well why didn't you say so... Italy really depends what dates as they changed side on an almost daily basis


(Sorry Regio if you're reading this!)

In GWX 3 they become Axis on 6/9/1940

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Sgt_Raa

Someone should make this mod for the homicidal ones like me... lol
im not that good yet... i can install mods but not make em!
it is known im sure that german uboats wouldnt take prisoners alot so they would just kill em off...
correct me if im wrong

Just because they did not take prisoners doesn't mean they simply shot survivors in the water. This would have been considered WAY outside the established rules of conduct, even for unrestricted submarine warfare.

In many cases they would come near enough to any lifeboats to talk to the survivors and get a positive ID on the ship they'd just sunk and any other info her men were willing to give them. There are accounts of u-boat crews passing over some basic supplies if needed as well as giving survivors their position and a course towards the nearest landfall, even charts and navigational aids if they had them to spare and the survivors had none. Also accounts of u-boat commanders finding and hailing neutral ships in the area and sending or bringing them back to pick up survivors of enemy ships they'd sunk.

Even the Laconia Order, which officially forbade u-boat crews from picking up or rendering extensive aid to survivors of their attacks, was only issued after an Allied plane attacked a u-boat that was attempting to rescue the Laconia's survivors.

Also you have to remember that the men on board u-boats were themselves sailors who might at any time be left at the mercy of the open sea and the elements of nature, and who were very much aware of this fact. To turn one's weapons on a helpless castaway already in that situation would be, for lack of a better phrase, a huge karmic no-no.

And of course there was also the possibility that one might be found out and held accountable for the killing of essentially helpless survivors, as was the case with Heinz-Wilhelm Eck. He ordered his men to machine-gun the wreckage of a sinking Greek ship, thereby killing some of her surviving crew. A coupla months later he was a POW in the hands of the British, who recovered his boat's war diary which contained a record of the incident. Eck and two of his officers were tried and convicted of war crimes and subsequently executed in 1945.

[Sgt_Raa]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Just because they did not take prisoners doesn't mean they simply shot survivors in the water. This would have been considered WAY outside the established rules of conduct, even for unrestricted submarine warfare.

In many cases they would come near enough to any lifeboats to talk to the survivors and get a positive ID on the ship they'd just sunk and any other info her men were willing to give them. There are accounts of u-boat crews passing over some basic supplies if needed as well as giving survivors their position and a course towards the nearest landfall, even charts and navigational aids if they had them to spare and the survivors had none. Also accounts of u-boat commanders finding and hailing neutral ships in the area and sending or bringing them back to pick up survivors of enemy ships they'd sunk.

Even the Laconia Order, which officially forbade u-boat crews from picking up or rendering extensive aid to survivors of their attacks, was only issued after an Allied plane attacked a u-boat that was attempting to rescue the Laconia's survivors.

Also you have to remember that the men on board u-boats were themselves sailors who might at any time be left at the mercy of the open sea and the elements of nature, and who were very much aware of this fact. To turn one's weapons on a helpless castaway already in that situation would be, for lack of a better phrase, a huge karmic no-no.

ah ok..... i didnt know about that...... makes me look at it in a different way..... i had never leaned that... google hear i come!
thx frau



http://www.uboataces.com/battle-laconia.shtml

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Just because they did not take prisoners doesn't mean they simply shot survivors in the water. This would have been considered WAY outside the established rules of conduct, even for unrestricted submarine warfare.

In many cases they would come near enough to any lifeboats to talk to the survivors and get a positive ID on the ship they'd just sunk and any other info her men were willing to give them. There are accounts of u-boat crews passing over some basic supplies if needed as well as giving survivors their position and a course towards the nearest landfall, even charts and navigational aids if they had them to spare and the survivors had none. Also accounts of u-boat commanders finding and hailing neutral ships in the area and sending or bringing them back to pick up survivors of enemy ships they'd sunk.

Even the Laconia Order, which officially forbade u-boat crews from picking up or rendering extensive aid to survivors of their attacks, was only issued after an Allied plane attacked a u-boat that was attempting to rescue the Laconia's survivors.

Also you have to remember that the men on board u-boats were themselves sailors who might at any time be left at the mercy of the open sea and the elements of nature, and who were very much aware of this fact. To turn one's weapons on a helpless castaway already in that situation would be, for lack of a better phrase, a huge karmic no-no.

Much better to die either in a blazing inferno, or slowly drifting through the Atlantic for days than a simple (?) shot to the head... Glad it's not my choice

http://www.uboat.net/articles/55.html

[Sgt_Raa]

Quote from uboataces"Donitz stood trial for war crimes and the Laconia order was used as a basis of indictment against him. Most surprisingly, he received support from some of the most respected figures in the US Navy, Admital Chester Nimitz who came to his defense and said that the United States had operated under the same engagements of unrestricted warfare. Despite the evidence of allied practice, Donitz was convicted of war crimes by the Nuremberg Tribunal and sentenced to 11 and a half years in prison. The U-boat crews deeply resented this action and felt that they were being prosecuted for the threat they had posed to the allies rather than for war crimes."

thats pretty bad that happened!... he tried to save all those people and went to jail for it!



this guy did machine gun survivors

http://www.uboat.net/articles/index....icle=18&page=2

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by privateer

http://www.uboat.net/articles/55.html

Wow, excellent article!

NB:

Other than the Eck case there is no proven intentional machine-gunning of survivors by a U-boat during the entire war

Edit: I confess I'm still woefully underinformed about Onkel Karl's trial and conviction, but I do wonder if things would've been much different had he NOT ended the war as Hitler's chosen successor as head of state. I mean, they couldn't put Hitler on trial because he was already dead (the bloody coward).

[sergei]

Originally Posted by Sgt_Raa

this guy did machine gun survivors

Yes he did.
But bear in mind that the Allies investigated extensively after the war looking for this sort of thing, and this is the only documented case they could find.

[Sgt_Raa]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Edit: I confess I'm still woefully underinformed about Onkel Karl's trial and conviction, but I do wonder if things would've been much different had he NOT ended the war as Hitler's chosen successor as head of state. I mean, they couldn't put Hitler on trial because he was already dead (the bloody coward).

thats another completely different story.... they never officialy found his (Hitler's) body... it was supposedly burned and buried!