Gun Violence and the outlawing of firearms in America

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

...besides you're more likely to get shot with your own gun anyways.

Yep. "If you have a gun the bad guys will just take it away and shoot you with it." That happened here in Utah quite a few years back. Young husky burglar broke into the house of an elderly couple in the middle of the night. He coldcocked the old man in his bed and then proceeded to dig into the old lady's jewelry box. When she started screaming he decided to strangle her. As he was doing so she was scratching at his chest and stomach. When she felt the gun in his wasteband she yanked it out and shot him with it.

If that poor burglar hadn't had a gun the bad guy wouldn't have used it on him.

Any more platitudes?

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yep. "If you have a gun the bad guys will just take it away and shoot you with it." That happened here in Utah quite a few years back. Young husky burglar broke into the house of an elderly couple in the middle of the night. He coldcocked the old man in his bed and then proceeded to dig into the old lady's jewelry box. When she started screaming he decided to strangle her. As he was doing so she was scratching at his chest and stomach. When she felt the gun in his wasteband she yanked it out and shot him with it.

If that poor burglar hadn't had a gun the bad guy wouldn't have used it on him.

Any more platitudes?

Got any actual stats to back up your quaint little stories?

[August]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Got any actual stats to back up your quaint little stories?

Go away sonny. Grown ups are having a discussion using a lot of big words and ideas you wouldn't understand.

[Sailor Steve]

Thanks a lot, August! Having him on my Ignore list doesn't help when you broadcast his inanities.

But I'll bite. Here's a stat for you: Last year alone several million privately owned American guns didn't shoot anybody.

[tater]

Guns being turned on their owners is a rare thing. They far more often prevent crimes without ever being discharged. This is of course irrelevant to discussions involving the US since to take away guns you'd need to repeal the 2d, period.

BTW, the vast majority of victims of gun violence, AND accidents... convicted felons, or their immediate families.

Gun crime in the US is very narrowly defined demographically. For "european" demographics the rates are similar to those in Europe. The US only appears violent because a small subset of the population is HUGELY more violent. An order of magnitude more, in fact.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Thanks a lot, August! Having him on my Ignore list doesn't help when you broadcast his inanities.

But I'll bite. Here's a stat for you: Last year alone several million privately owned American guns didn't shoot anybody.

http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoo...statistics.htm

Statistics: Gun Violence in Our Communities School Safety
Less than 1% of all homicides among school-aged children (5-19 years of age) occur in or around school grounds or on the way to and from school. (Centers for Disease Control, 1997)
Children and Gun Violence
In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)
America and Gun Violence
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)
Guns in the Wrong Hands
Faulty records enable terrorists, illegal aliens and criminals to purchase guns. Over a two and a half-year period, at least 9,976 convicted felons and other illegal buyers in 46 states obtained guns because of inadequate records. (Broken Records, Americans for Gun Safety Foundation)
School Safety

• Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001)
• In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)
• Nearly 8% of adolescents in urban junior and senior high schools miss at least one day of school each month because they are afraid to attend. (National Mental Health & Education Center for Children & Families, National Association of School Psychologists 1998)
• The National School Boards Association estimates that more than 135,000 guns are brought into U.S. schools each day. (NSBA, 1993)
  

Children and Gun Violence

• America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)
• In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund)
• The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

America and Gun Violence

• Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)
• The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
• American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)

Guns in the Wrong Hands

• Americans for Gun Safety produced a 2003 report that reveals that 20 of the nation’s 22 national gun laws are not enforced. According to U.S. Department of Justice data (FY 2000-2002), only 2% of federal gun crimes were actually prosecuted. Eighty-five percent of cases prosecuted relate to street criminals in possession of firearms. Ignored are laws intended to punish illegal gun trafficking, firearm theft, corrupt gun dealers, lying on a criminal background check form, obliterating firearm serial numbers, selling guns to minors and possessing a gun in a school zone. To access The Enforcement Gap: Federal Gun Laws Ignored, visit http://w3.agsfoundation.com/. For a state-by-state chart of gun crimes (FY 2000-2002), click here.
• Studies show that 1 percent of gun stores sell the weapons traced to 57 percent of gun crimes. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the dealer that armed the DC area sniper is among this small group of problem gun dealers that "supply the suppliers" who funnel guns to the nation's criminals. (Between 1997 and 2001, guns sold by this dealer were involved in 52 crimes, including homicides, kidnappings and assaults. Still open today, it also can't account for 238 guns or say whether they were stolen, lost or sold, or if their buyers underwent felony-background checks.) As a result, these few gun dealers have a vastly disproportionate impact on public safety. The ATF can recognize such dealers based on: (1) guns stolen from inventory; (2) missing federal sales records, needed by police to solve crimes; (3) having 10 weapons a year traced to crimes; (4) frequently selling multiple guns to individual buyers; and (5) short times between gun sales and their involvement in crimes. Yet ATF enforcement is weak due to a lack of Congressional support and resources. For more details, click here.
• Terrorists have purchased firearms at gun shows, where unlicensed sellers are not currently required to conduct background checks or to ask for identification. According to the Middle East Intelligence Report, for example, a Hezbollah member was arrested in November 2000, after a nine-month investigation by the FBI's counter-terrorism unit. Ali Boumelhem was later convicted on seven counts of weapons charges and conspiracy to ship weapons and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents had observed Boumelhem, a resident of Detroit and Beirut, travel to Michigan gun shows and buy gun parts and ammunition for shipment overseas. Boumelhem was prohibited from legally purchasing guns as gun stores because he was a convicted felon. Additional cases involve a Pakistani national with an expired (1988) student visa; a Lebanese native and Hamas member with numerous felony convictions; and a supporter of the Irish Republican Army. (USA Today, Wednesday, November 28, 2001 Americans for Gun Safety)

• According to Americans for Gun Safety (December 2002), gun theft is most likely in states without laws requiring safe storage of firearms in the home and where there are large numbers of gun owners and relatively high crime rates. Based on FBI data, nearly 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years, and only 40% of those were recovered. The missing guns, over 80% of which are taken from homes or cars, most likely fuel the black market for criminals. NEA, AGS and the National Rifle Association advocate for safe storage. To access "Stolen Guns: Arming the Enemy" visit www.agsfoundation.com.

• The American Medical Association reports that between 36% and 50% of male eleventh graders believe that they could easily get a gun if they wanted one.

• In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)

• According to a report by the Joshephson Institute of Ethics (2000 Report Card: Report #1), 60% of high school and 31% of middle school boys said they could get a gun if they wanted to (April, 2001).

[GoldenRivet]

here is some stats:

There are over five hundred and fifty million firearms in world wide circulation.

Thats one firearm for every twelve people on the planet.

the only question is...


... how do we arm the other eleven?

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Owning and shooting a gun in and of itself doesn't hurt anyone.

Neither does shooting nukes at asteroids. Should I be allowed to buy nukes and missiles for that purpose, if I have the money?

If there are to be no restrictions on owning a firearm doesn't that mean convicts and lunatics must be allowed to buy them.

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

If there are to be no restrictions on owning a firearm doesn't that mean convicts and lunatics must be allowed to buy them.

Lunatics are already allowed to buy them in the US. Insane is okay, but they draw the line at criminally insane.
(go to 1:30)

Lunatics are already allowed to buy them in the US

You mean Michael Moore is actually allowed a gun??????

Originally Posted by Tribesman

You mean Michael Moore is actually allowed a gun??????

Michael Moore is even a member of the NRA.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

Go away sonny. Grown ups are having a discussion using a lot of big words and ideas you wouldn't understand.

Now now August, it is a legitimate request. Name calling does not further this discussion.

If this case is known to Steve, it should be easy for him to produce a news link or a criminal record link.

If there is no citation, it is just an opinion on a video game website.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I ran a test some years ago, with a couple of my personal firearms. One was an AR-15, the other an SKS. I loaded both and put them on the back porch of my rural home under the watchful eye of a DVR video camera. For one week, the firearms sat there on the back porch, fully loaded... seven days.

During those seven days, neither gun ever attempted to kill anyone.

they both lay there, behaving in a peaceful manner, never acting in aggression or making any movement whatsoever.

however...

in that same seven day period, 18 people were arrested for DUI, 3 for reckless driving, 1 for endangerment of a child, 4 for methamphetamine possession, 15 for shoplifting and 1 for domestic abuse.



personally, it makes more sense to outlaw idiots than it does guns.

This is what the Republican party has been trying to tell the idiot democrats for decades. Its either entirely to simple for them, or entirely to complicated because they still haven't figured it out. But I think its because they do not want to listen.

[tater]

The stats posted by OTH are of course very misleading.

"Children" means minors. The vast majority of those firearms deaths of children are closer to 18 years old. Gangbangers, etc. Regardless of age, the vast majority of children who are hurt or killed as a result of fire arms are criminals, or children of criminals (or living in a home with a criminal).

That relates to the CDC claim that far higher US deaths occur under age 15.

Criminal kids at home with other kids that may, or may not be criminals. Older, criminal kid (or criminal parent) leaves loaded gun around (if they were responsible they'd not have had kids in the first place in their economic situation), kid gets killed playing with it.

When you look at a suburban demographic, US stats look like Europe—though slightly higher. When you look at a 3d world demographic in the US, the rate looks 3d world.

Ban having kids without a dad married to the mom, and you'll see a better reduction, frankly (since the bulk of US firearms deaths come from firearms that are illegally owned, anyway (kids of any age, felons, etc, may not purchase firearms in the US).