shoot first, check flag later

[ralphnader23]

Obviously a bad idea, especially now that I"m on GWX where there are a lot more ships on sea.

Found a troop ship on the Irish Sea last night, and figured it had to be English, because I was so close to England. I gave it two torpedoes, and was waiting to see if it sank, when I noticed that there didn't seem to be a union jack on the flag. In fact, as the sun came up, it started to look more and more like a Red Cross. . I guess I need to change up my policy of torpedo first, check flag later. -7000 reown and career over when I got back to port.

I was thinking about it on my way to work this morning, and I was wondering what would have happened historically if a german u-boat commander had done that? Would I have been shot upon returning to port? hanged? severly reprimanded? forced to bunk with Bernard?

As another side question...my career was instantly over when I got back to port. Is there any way to see your stats or anything once you are at that point? Maybe a summary of past careers?

[Sailor Steve]

In real life several German and Italian ships were sunk by u-boats. In every case I've come across the target ship was either disguised as an Allied ship or was in Allied shipping lanes without disguise. In every case it was determined that it wasn't the u-boat kaleun's fault and his career was not affected.

I've never liked the renown loss for friendly/neutral ships, but I don't like to get credit for sinking them either, as that's cheating to me, so what I did was go into the Data/Cfg/Basic file and change it. The third section from the top is

[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=0
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=0
CompletedPatrol=0
NEUTRAL=-1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
WrongShipSunk=-5000
FirstRankRenown=100
SecondRankRenown=350
EndCampaign=-5000

There you can change all the renown parameters, including restoring the renown for reaching and patrolling your grid. I left those alone, as I agree with the GWX guys that you wouldn't become famous for just doing your job. But I did change mine to read

NEUTRAL=0
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-1

That way I don't get punished for sinking neutrals, but I don't get rewarded either, so it's not a temptation to just sink them for fun, and I don't get seriously hurt for sinking a friendly but it's still a bad idea game-wise.

[frau kaleun]

One well documented case of German "friendly fire" was that of Ali Cremer's sinking of the German blockade runner Spreewald:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan...me-2-1942.html

At the outbreak of WWII, the German passenger-carrying freighter Spreewald of the Hamburg-Amerika Line, was interned at Port Arthur (now Dairen). In 1941, she was brought back to service and set sail from Port Arthur on October 21, 1942, loaded with rubber, wolfram and quinine. While en route to Germany she rendezvoused with the German supply ship Kulmerland and embarked around 200 British prisoners. These prisoners were merchant seamen, survivors of ships sunk by the raider Kormoran. On January 31, the Spreewald was on her final approach to Bordeaux in France when she was torpedoed by the German U-boat, U-333, whose captain, Korvetten-Kapitän Peter Cremer, believed it to be a British ship.

http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/1305.html

At 16.50 hours on 31 Jan, 1942, the German blockade runner Spreewald was hit by one torpedo from U-333 and sunk by a coup de grâce at 18.33 hours. Cremer had spotted an unescorted and zigzagging steamer and examined it from 400 metres distance before firing his second last torpedo, but he could not identify the Spreewald as own ship because she was camouflaged as Norwegian Elg and after the first hit they sent an open emergency call with the name Britanny.

Cremer was court-martialled upon return to base but found guiltless since, given the Spreewald's course, position, and deliberately diguised markings and radio ID, it would have been impossible for him to have identified her as either a friendly or a neutral ship. I believe there was also some issue with her not being where she was supposed to have been at the given time/date which also put her at risk of "mis"identification by other German vessels.

[Iranon]

Sinking friendly ships disguised as enemies is one thing, hospital ships are something else entirely.

Germany took this very seriously when others didn't: There were confirmed attacks on clearly marked hospital ships by British, American and Japanese forces.
Germany complained rather loudly after the sinking of the hospital ship Tübingen, and Dönitz also reacted very strongly when told that Italy was in the habit of misusing hospital ships for military purposes.
All in all, I think being shot at dawn is entirely realistic here.

[Synthfg]

True
Your 1 war too late to be hunting hospital ships,

In the 14 18 war hospital ships were apparently fair game,
whilst there is still doubt about weather Titanic's sister Britanic was sunk by torpedo or mine, there were many clearly marked hospital ships deliberatly sunk by U boat in and around the UK

[Jimbuna]

I'm in no way intending to dispute any of the above answers but you should really be checking the flag first.

Anything other IMHO is tardy

Questionable 'mistakes' did occur during both world wars but you are far better being known as a humanitarian Kaleun by doing 'the right thing' as a matter of course

[ralphnader23]

Yeah I'm quickly learning that in GWX is pays to be patient. Next time when the flag is in question I'll wait and look at the flag first. And if it's too late to fire? Well just wait until they get out of visual range, surface, set speed to flank, and go around them until I'm back in front.

Same thing with convoys...shoot your torps and dive...and don't try to come back up for a second shot with the stern tubes or anything silly. Just stay low and quiet until the convoy leaves...then reload and go find them again.

As opposed to my old strategy of trying to empty every tube before I slink away...and getting depth charged as a result.

[sergei]

Originally Posted by ralphnader23

Same thing with convoys...shoot your torps and dive...and don't try to come back up for a second shot with the stern tubes or anything silly. Just stay low and quiet until the convoy leaves...then reload and go find them again.

Amen to that brother.
Trying to pull this kind of stunt got me killed a few times before I learnt better

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I'm in no way intending to dispute any of the above answers but you should really be checking the flag first.

Anything other IMHO is tardy

Questionable 'mistakes' did occur during both world wars but you are far better being known as a humanitarian Kaleun by doing 'the right thing' as a matter of course

And what happened to "Sink 'Em All"?


Jim is right of course. Identifying the ship beforehand is the key to doing the job right.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And what happened to "Sink 'Em All"?


Jim is right of course. Identifying the ship beforehand is the key to doing the job right.

What I do in the privacy of my computer room from behind the screen of my monitor......is highly questionable, erm I mean classified