Ban on offshore drilling lifted...

[GoldenRivet]

Well Louisiana should have all the right in the world to organize off shore drilling under it's own authorization.

and you know... when they send rigs out there to get it, it should be THEIR oil. Not uncle sam's.

Imagine... Fuel prices in one state being $1.15 / gallon and nearly $3 everywhere else

[Zachstar]

And when other states get affected by their spills? "Tough ****" right?

[GoldenRivet]

Zach, here is a question only you can answer...

How many man made oil spills have occurred in the gulf of mexico... or anywhere around the United States coastal waters for that matter, in say, the last 100 years per billion barrels of oil produced and refined?

EDIT:

besides... im sure that when China, Russia and Louisiana share a monopoly on gulf oil - Louisiana could no doubt afford to lead a cleanup effort.

[Zachstar]

So its alright to ruin the lives of countless fishermen and related industry and wreck tourism and other services as long as we get so many barrels of oil? What?

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Zach, here is a question only you can answer...

How many man made oil spills have occurred in the gulf of mexico... or anywhere around the United States coastal waters for that matter, in say, the last 100 years per billion barrels of oil produced and refined?

EDIT:

besides... im sure that when China, Russia and Louisiana share a monopoly on gulf oil - Louisiana could no doubt afford to lead a cleanup effort.

Wiki lists 43 US oil spills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

So it's okay to do irreparable harm to the environment so some jackass doesn't have to pay more than $3.00 a gallon to drive his Hummer?

We're addicted to oil. More of a drug will not help one kick the habit.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Wiki lists 43 US oil spills

wow 43?

yeah i saw that.

so lets narrow it down to MAN MADE oil spills. not oil spills which occur naturally or spills caused by natural events like hurricanes etc

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

So it's okay to do irreparable harm to the environment so some jackass doesn't have to pay more than $3.00 a gallon to drive his Hummer?

So what about the guy with the sub compact that has a 80 mile work commute? not everyone drives H3s dude... get a grip.

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

We're addicted to oil. More of a drug will not help one kick the habit.

While i agree 10,000% that we need to move to new sources for energy... I dont think systematically dismantling the oil industry in a matter of months is the answer.


i said it a million times if i have said it once.

B.O. should have let the dinosaur GM sink - and should have instead invested that bailout money into an automobile company like "Aptera"

then, after production numbers could reasonably be expected to meet demand... he could have implemented the "Cash for clunkers" program as an incentive for vehicle owners to purchase more "green" cars which would be either hybrid or fully electric.

another one of those pure platinum opportunities the man missed

[krashkart]

Bah! Fish. All they provide is omega fatty acids anyway.

Seriously though, 43 spills in the US alone (the US makes up the majority of that list BTW) is more than enough of a knock on the noggin. Sure our vehicles require fuel, but we also require untainted food sources. Seafood is healthy for us, and the money generated through fishing/shrimping and oyster farming keeps the fishermen's families fed and happy (also a very healthy thing).

[August]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

So what about the guy with the sub compact that has a 80 mile work commute? not everyone drives H3s dude... get a grip.

Not to mention the fact that a guy who can afford an H3 would hardly care if gas goes to $10 bucks a gallon.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by August

Not to mention the fact that a guy who can afford an H3 would hardly care if gas goes to $10 bucks a gallon.

Spot on.

[GoldenRivet]

correct.

I recall when i was a regional airline pilot a few years ago, I worked in Dallas, but lived about 90 miles away.

why dont i just move to Dallas?

a. because the cost of living is much higher in those areas for rent etc
b. because my wife already had a decent job locally
c. at a meager $19,000 per year i could barely afford to drive to work, let alone move to a place that would likely double my rent.

the attack on oil is not the answer.

we need a 10 year plan to independence from oil.

and i think BO could have done a good job to give that bailout money to a new on the scene car company to produce all electric and hybrid vehicles.

and then use a rebate program to encourage their purchase.

would have worked... and put us years ahead of schedule on that 10 year plan

[Zachstar]

The aptera will never be cheap enough even being made in a right to work pisshole plant it would take decades before the infranstruture was in place to fully support a sizeable number of them. Meanwhile countless good union jobs would have been lost and many more nonunion related would have also been lost.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

The aptera will never be cheap enough even being made in a right to work pisshole plant it would take decades before the infranstruture was in place to fully support a sizeable number of them. Meanwhile countless good union jobs would have been lost and many more nonunion related would have also been lost.

wont now.

of course they are projecting a base cost of $25,000 - $40,000 depending on options etc.

Furthermore they are only selling them in the state of California

HOWEVER

If* the president had injected some 20 Billion dollars into that segment of the auto industry versus the old dinosaur GM, i think one could do a lot with $20B to disperse a vehicle like the aptera and mass produce it in sufficient quantities that it would be widely available even if to some small degree.

[Zachstar]

You cant suddenly "mass produce" something as advanced as a car. On top of that even if they managed to get GMs plants it would take half a decade to retool them to produce such awkward vehicles.

I once thought the same way. But the cost in jobs would be far too great. GM has now recovered somewhat. and is finally listening to the winds of change.

No what is needed is SERIOUS money as a prize for market mass delivery of cheap, reliable, and dense storage for electric vehicles the storage issue is why Oil is still so popular.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

You cant suddenly "mass produce" something as advanced as a car. On top of that even if they managed to get GMs plants it would take half a decade to retool them to produce such awkward vehicles.

didnt i say earlier we needed a "ten year plan"?

of course it wouldnt be an over night operation... but like i said $20 BILLION makes one hell of a motivator. You may not realize it but Aptera is currently building these cars. of course they are building them to order for CA residents only.

If the Aptera or a car like it were available in Texas, i would have purchased one last July. - the big problem with electric hybrid and all electric vehicles thus far IMHO has been one of lack of stylish designs.

the serpentine styling of the Aptera particularly appeals to me over say... the Nissan leaf or the Prius, neither of which are sporty in my opinion.

I think families with 2 cars could really benefit right now by owning one electric or electric-hybrid and one gasoline powered vehicle.

while your family of four is not going to pile into something like the Aptera with its 300mpg range and 2 seat capacity - you might see a number of grocery runs, work commutes and other errands being completed with the car.

My wife and I have already determined that if we owned an all electric vehicle. it would save us between $1,000 and $2,500 in fuel costs annually. Thats a nice vacation (which we haven't had in a while.)

One of my friends who is an electrical engineer claims that an all electric car could be recharged overnight (using aptera's figures) for about $3 to $5 total. And you would really only be charging the electric car once about every 3 or 4 days (maybe once every 15 days depending on commute distance) so your electric bill increases of course... but based on the numbers he ran would only be about $30 more per month assuming you charged it every 4 days. However, your automobile emissions would be nil, and you didnt spend jack squat on fuel. if i used the vehicle for my commute... im looking at substantial savings.

i just find it funny, that America is crying to get free of oil dependency, but then we inject untold billions of dollars into the revitalization of the American Automobile Industry and create a program which encourages current vehicle owners with incentives to trade in their old fossil fuel vehicles for new ones.

nothing about that equation makes sense.

i say - like i have a dozen times - the thing to do would have been to let GM fail.

but...but..you lose all those jobs: been to detroit? its a slum already with hundreds of acres of unoccupied neighborhoods. The jobless rate in America would LEAP from 9.7% to about 10% (keep your eye on the prize that 90% of Americans are still employed) but those people would be able to find jobs with new car companies building new hybrid and electric vehicles once they ramp up production.

the next thing to do would have been to inject that cash into the upstart vehicle companies currently producing these types of cars.

the first thing you are going to see is purchasing of land, and construction of factories and warehouses... like you said this will take about 3 years to tool in a factory. this will come at a cost of several hundred million - oh hell - lets even say 5 billion dollars. (you still have a good $15B left)

the second thing you are going to see is that these car companies are going to need thousands of employees to build cars.

third... dealer networks will emerge.

you wont see a dealer on every corner of every small town in America... I'm talking you might see one dealership per state, or two in particularly large states. so an individual in Illinois might have to drive to Chicago to purchase one and then take it home.

if America really wants independence from oil... we sure are showing it by dumping billions of dollars out so that GM can make more Corvettes, Camaros, Yukons and Silverados.

[krashkart]

If America really wants independence from oil we would stop buying 'Vettes and Hummers and all those other gas-guzzling monsters. Not likely to happen, though. At least until the alternatives become mainstream (and the alternative sports cars look more "beefy"). But how long might that take, and how much more damage will we have done by then?