Since that last stimulus was so successfull...

[SteamWake]

Lets do it again !

Originally Posted by Washington Post

President Obama urged reluctant lawmakers Saturday to quickly approve nearly $50 billion in emergency aid to state and local governments, saying the money is needed to avoid "massive layoffs of teachers, police and firefighters" and to support the still-fragile economic recovery

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...061204152.html

My heart goes out to future generations.

[AVGWarhawk]

The first 50 billion should have gone to saving teachers, policemen and firemen jobs. It is very sad. I know of many teachers getting the boot. Here in Baltimore the firehouses are being closed right and left. Good luck if you need fire and rescue. Schools in some cities and states are starting damn fund raisers to pay for teachers. Really....WTF? Where does the priority lay? Oh yeah....damn Wall Street. It is a damn shame that the city/county/state budgets are completely worthless along with the folks running the city, county and state budgets. Just last week for example, a local school was asking for an additional $70.00 from all students to pay for this years prom. Say what? A undergraduate has to pay for a graduates prom? Really?

Here is a good one for you....Maryland passed legislation to have casinos built and run. Last week the state of Maryland purchased 50 million worth of gambling machines. Really? Who's money did they use? Why tax payers money of course. WTF? Why didn't the casino owners purchase the machines. Furthermore, why are the tax payers being charged three times over and above what the actual machine is selling for?

[Weiss Pinguin]

"Don't you see? Doing exactly what we've done 18 times before is the last thing they'll expect! We'll get this recession yet!"

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Here is a good one for you....Maryland passed legislation to have casinos built and run. Last week the state of Maryland purchased 50 million worth of gambling machines. Really? Who's money did they use? Why tax payers money of course. WTF? Why didn't the casino owners purchase the machines. Furthermore, why are the tax payers being charged three times over and above what the actual machine is selling for?

Because that's the way governments do things. Didn't you read the owner's manual?


What I love is the reply I got when I suggested that congressional and presidential salaries be cut to the bone, and staffs sent packing except for the bare essentials.

The reply was "We need to pay at least as much as they would make in the professional world, or else how can we get the best and the brightest?"

[AVGWarhawk]

Because that's the way governments do things. Didn't you read the owner's manual?

If you only knew the manual I have. It would make your head spin. I do a lot for FEMA. Need I say more?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The first 50 billion should have gone to saving teachers, policemen and firemen jobs. It is very sad. I know of many teachers getting the boot. Here in Baltimore the firehouses are being closed right and left. Good luck if you need fire and rescue. Schools in some cities and states are starting damn fund raisers to pay for teachers. Really....WTF? Where does the priority lay? Oh yeah....damn Wall Street.

Sadly, that seems to be the general perspective. I really do not know how people can be so intelligent and so naive at the same time. Where do they think all the wealth generated to pay for such things in the first place comes from? It doesn't come from public buildings. It doesn't come from Ma and Pa businesses. It mostly comes from large, successful companies and the people they employ.By contrast, the biggest single drain on the economy and the tax base is the government itself, which accounts for roughly one third of the GDP while still running at a loss. A huge loss. Which party do you suppose is most responsible for the insufficient funding of public resources?

If you're looking for someone to blame in this case, you can point your finger squarely at public unions, especially in the case of public schools. Spending per student has only ever gone up in the last half-century, but our schools are still garbage. That's what you get when you give state sanction to a monopoly. I'd know. I work for one. Ever hear the term "railroaded?" Of course you have, but for those who don't know it means being forced along a particular and disadvantageous course of action.

*the rest of this is not directed at AVG

Railroads were among the first nationwide industries to completely screw everyone over by abusing state power, and they are still like that to this day. It all started when rail lines spread across the nation like wildfire. Railroads were engaged in constant price wars, and due to the nature of railroads themselves, long range-shipping was quite cheap. The exception came in the occassional backwater short-haul route where the railroad would charge whatever the market would bear. Many times it was the smaller railroads that were abusing this practice, but what was actually happening and what legislators heard were two different things.

Losing railroads and angry, vocal customers who paid absurd short-haul rates begged for congress to do something. At that point, wise, infinitely knowledgeable and saintly legislators stepped in and fixed the problem, right? No, of course not. Legislators created a commission within the parameters of the ICC to regulate railroads and guess who immediately took it over? It wasn't politicians. It wasn't activists. It was the railroad men who knew the game, and their solution to the problem of unequal freight rates was to raise the price of all rates to that of the highest regional rate. Way to go, gullible eligible voters. That's why railroads began a process of deregulation in the 1960's. Suffering industries lobbied for deregulation because the freight rates they were charged were so ridiculous. The railroads themselves lobbied for deregulation because regulations were becoming a threat to profitability. They wanted to abandon passenger service and rate exceptions that other major industries had successfully lobbied for because it was beginning to cost them money. And guess what!? They succeeded! How in Holy Hell did that happen? Gee, I wonder. The railroads wanted a way to nail consumers to the cross and the gullible idiots gave it to them because they trusted the state.

On the labor side, we have the very powerful and influential transportation unions, which are backed by government support and arbitration. They do represent large voting blocks and potential sources of campaign funding, after all. Iw rok with these guys all the time. They are almost all lazy A-holes because they can't be fired. They didn't get that way because they were talented or good transportation workers or because they had a passion for their job. They got that way because, once again, gullible idiots gave them the means to do so.

The teachers' unions are no different. Anybody here ever had a bad public teacher? If you did, it's because public schools have to tolerate bad teachers. Look it up yourself. It often takes years to fire a teacher, so it isn't even worth the hassle. At the same time, these teachers are given ridiculous salries not because they are any good, but because they are part of a union. It's a closed market. The suppliers get to decide who may and may not provide the supply. It's a supply-side monopoly, and that's just how such things work. That's why teachers make so much for only 9 months of work. It sure as hell isn't because they are all invaluable public assets, or because there is any shortage of them under current protocol. If you can't understand that, then you're probably a student of a public union school. I don't say that to belittle people who have ideas abotu how public education may be made better, or more cost-effective, I say it to point out that the proponents have been duped, and the evidence is very clear.

That said, why would anyone suppose that any other public institution would work any differently? Public institutions certainly have their share of dedicated and truly motivated individuals, but so does private industry. At what point does percieved nobility become an institution worthy of enforced monopoly? Who are the saints who select the saints? How do you keep a profit-seeker out of public service? With rhetoric? <positively dripping with sarcasm> Are we really so stupid?

[August]

This is what happens when you rely on some far off government organization to fund what should be funded locally.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by August

This is what happens when you rely on some far off government organization to fund what should be funded locally.

That, too. Scale of economy does not work when it comes to true monopolies and state agencies.

[AVGWarhawk]

Sadly, that seems to be the general perspective. I really do not know how people can be so intelligent and so naive at the same time. Where do they think all the wealth generated to pay for such things in the first place comes from? It doesn't come from public buildings. It doesn't come from Ma and Pa businesses. It mostly comes from large, successful companies and the people they employ.By contrast, the biggest single drain on the economy and the tax base is the government itself, which accounts for roughly one third of the GDP while still running at a loss. A huge loss. Which party do you suppose is most responsible for the insufficient funding of public resources?

If you're looking for someone to blame in this case, you can point your finger squarely at public unions, especially in the case of public schools. Spending per student has only ever gone up in the last half-century, but our schools are still garbage. That's what you get when you give state sanction to a monopoly. I'd know. I work for one. Ever hear the term "railroaded?" Of course you have, but for those who don't know it means being forced along a particular and disadvantageous course of action.

To be sure, Wall Street is just one of the multitude that received stimulus. I do not have enough space to list all the dribble the money when to however I have enough space to list were the money did not go...schools, police and firemen. The government is poorly managed. State and local government is poorly managed.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I have enough space to list were the money did not go...schools, police and firemen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...2009#Education

Add a few billion for police, and a couple of hundred million for fire services. Small potatoes compared to education, definitely.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...2009#Education

Add a few billion for police, and a couple of hundred million for fire services. Small potatoes compared to education, definitely.

But even so sir...fire departments are being closed in droves within the city of Baltimore. Education did suffer here. Does that make for a good future for the country? Is it really no child left behind or is just leave it all behind and hope for the best? But again, as you pointed out...billions here for this and that concerning education. Where did the money go? People are still being layed off. Schools are falling apart. Where did the money go? Oh yes....gambling machines! These funds have been raped just like Social Security gets raped.

[SteamWake]

It's curious that its the 'services' that get cut first.

I say fire some of the politicans.. save money that way

[Weiss Pinguin]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

It's curious that its the 'services' that get cut first.

I say fire some of the politicans.. save money that way

Oh goodness no, don't you know its only because of their stunning wisdom that this country is still together?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

It's curious that its the 'services' that get cut first.

I say fire some of the politicans.. save money that way

Well golly days we can not cut the mayors and his lieutenants!!! After all they run the city and are doing such a great job! Honestly, why are politicians elected? We need to elect managers.

Let me show you my pie chart......

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

But even so sir...fire departments are being closed in droves within the city of Baltimore. Education did suffer here. Does that make for a good future for the country? Is it really no child left behind or is just leave it all behind and hope for the best? But again, as you pointed out...billions here for this and that concerning education. Where did the money go? People are still being layed off. Schools are falling apart. Where did the money go? Oh yes....gambling machines! These funds have been raped just like Social Security gets raped.

What was spent on gambling machines is just the tip of the iceberg. That was actually a good investment, if somewhat reeking of cronyism and favoritism. Simply legalizing gambling and taxing gambling operations or the resultant incomes should have been more than enough to raise revenue, but even a $50 million investment in it is still going to pay off in fairly short order.

Where did the money go? That's an excellent question, and it is one that governments the world over have never been able to answer satisfactorily. But I know. In 2000, the city of Austin, Texas began selling bottled water as way to promote the city's image. They sold 24-packs of city tap water for $6.00 a case. The price was a little steep considering what was being offered, but since each case cost the city $8 and freaking 90 cents just to make they actually managed to lose money. Millions of dollars down the proverbial drain. Only governments can sell tap water for more than the price of gasoline and still lose money.

Between 1990 and 2006 (IIRC) the DOD simply misplaced 2 trillion dollars. They say they may have it, but they don't know where it is. That ridiculous figure represents the entire lifetime earnings of thousands of Americans. And yet nobody is punished or sent to prison. Most of the time there isn't even any public scrutiny. Again, I know exactly where all that money went. If you'll allow me to again relate a story I've already told, I'll discourse upon it.

I have been personally responsible for the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of taxpayer-funded military assets. I didn't lose all that money because I get kicks out of screwing taxpayers over. Far from it. To this day I refuse to accept VA benefits because I don't think I deserve them. But when it comes to whether or not comms are up or down my ass and the asses of my Marines are on the line, I'll gladly bury a $40,000 Vietnam-era radio system and come up with a convenient excuse for the loss in order to get a timely replacement rather than see my Marines or myself die or get the 3rd-degree for lack of sufficient communications assets. And if you're wondering how it can more time to get a factory replacement than it can to repair a mostly-functional unit, take a wild f----ing guess. That's just how things work when the government does business. Don't make me write another word-wall to explain it fully.

There is only one thing that will fix public services: Incentive. The best way to ensure that there is incentive and simultaneously ensure that the best public servants get the jobs is to promote meritocracy, and the best system of meritocracy the world has ever devised is capitalism. We need to introduce capitalism into our public services, at least partially. In the few cases where we have tried it has always worked out quite well, even when it just meant that the public departments had to perform better and ended up getting the contracts.

What we have instead couldn't be more accurately predicted than if we had a state based upon the equation Efficiency=Mindlessness x Carelessness squared.