Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Then the FBI should bug all the mosques, they are hubs of different illegal activity besides terrorism.

Violation of tax except status would be a crime for the dreaded IRS not the FBI.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Violation of tax except status would be a crime for the dreaded IRS not the FBI.

Well you have tens of agencies, we only have few that can actually bug someone.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Well you have tens of agencies, we only have few that can actually bug someone.

Oh the IRS bugs everyone in the country once a year.

*Rimshot



Incase there are cultural diffrences: bug, slang term for annoy or bother.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Then the FBI should bug all the mosques, they are hubs of different illegal activity besides terrorism.

Then I think we should start with the Catholic churches. That would make a good start in reducing illegal activity besides terrorism.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Oh the IRS bugs everyone in the country once a year.

*Rimshot



Incase there are cultural diffrences: bug, slang term for annoy or bother.

HAH Zing!

And no the FBI cant effectively bug all Mosques. It would make for quite the political fallout if discovered.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Then the FBI should bug all the mosques, they are hubs of different illegal activity besides terrorism.

They're all hubs of terrorism and other illegal activities?

By Jove, this sounds serious.

I dont know what you saying -all i wrote is true.

How on earth can you say that?
You know full well there are plenty of fundamentalist nuts in Israel.
You know full well that there are extremist nuts in government that are sponsored both domesticly and from abroad by people and groups that share their ideology.
You also know full well that the nuts have their own institutes of education.
That makes all you wrote about those things not happening in Israel false.
It really is that easy, the first three lines you wrote in that post I mentioned are simply untrue.
You took a step towards acknowledging that and trying to quantify it as a justification, before regressing into denial again.

He doesnt see that there are exactly absolutes surrounding Israel and there is no middle ground with those forces.

Only if you are a fundamerntalist who sees only black and white and only from one angle, which puts you on the same page as the fundamentalist nuts that you claim to oppose Happy Times.
BTW hows the fight for racial purity and the struggle for the preservation of white nordic humanity going?
Ain't it amazing how your views turn round and bite you on the butt

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

some more facts and news came out over the weekend.

The NY Times quotes a turkish doctor who was a passenger on the Mavi Marmara. He saw a small group of activists attack the soldiers as soon as they landed, stabbing them, beating them with wooden and metal poles and taking their weapons away. The "gunfire" from the helicopters appears to be rubber bullets shot to disperse the crowd. It's more and more clear that the IDF's version of what happened is the correct one.

Doesn't make them look too much better to me. The best that can be said about this is that it exonerates the soldiers involved, which leaves Israel government and military higher-ups who planned this ill-conceived action in the first place.

More importantly, Ireland and Israel had come to an agreement on friday that the cargo would be unloaded and inspected at Ashdod, but the activists rejected this:

Considering that any way you cut it, this defeats what they were trying to do, I'm not shocked.

Originally Posted by Skybird

In 2008, Henryk Broder was invited to deliver a speech on the issue of anti-semitism and anti-zionism to Domestic Affairs Committee of the German Bundestag. This speech I knew since long in it's German original, but today I found out that somebody has translated it into English some time ago, and so: here it is. I liked it very much the first time I've read about it, because it very much reflects the same reasons why I call call the global anti-Israeli mood a form of antisemtiism, too.

Good read.

[/I]

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/anti-se...inglepage=true

German version:
http://www.lizaswelt.net/2008/06/ant...emiten_16.html

I've read it - at the rate that article was going, you can't criticize a thing Israel does without being an anti-Semite.

Doesn't make them look too much better to me.

No it doesn't really, though one comment Bilge makes seems to make little sense.....

It's more and more clear that the IDF's version of what happened is the correct one.

.....which IDF version, after all they have changed their story so many times.

I've read it - at the rate that article was going, you can't criticize a thing Israel does without being an anti-Semite.

Thats an anti-semitic statement you just made

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

How on earth can you say that?
You know full well there are plenty of fundamentalist nuts in Israel.

Yes there are but depends what you call fundamentalist Jews-the most religious Jew don't even see Israel as country since they wait for Messiah to come first.
There are the far right wing Jews that every one likes to rant about.
They go claim some hill for them selfs and wait for IDF to kick them out.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

You know full well that there are extremist nuts in government that are sponsored both domesticly and from abroad by people and groups that share their ideology.

If you call an extremist any one from Shalom Ahshav to the right then yes....i wouldn't be surprised if you called current government as extremist.
Bw Shalom Ahshav is sponsored from abroad too....and within them there a lefties to the lefties who go and throw stones at IDF together with Palestinians or meet with hammas leaders.==nuts

So you see we are country with left and right wing-like any country in Europe...not exactly the same but similar.
It doesn't seem that Israel will be overtaken in near future by right extemist wing party or left one.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

I've read it - at the rate that article was going, you can't criticize a thing Israel does without being an anti-Semite.

You exaggerate. While anti-semites will always criticise Israel for no matter what it does or does not, and will attack it just because it is there, non-anti-semites certainly can criticise it, too, without necessarily becoming anti-semites that way - it depends on the issue, and the criticism. Just when you start to deny them any means and any right to defend themselves - that I would call a form of anti-semitism indeed, becasue denying somebody the right of self-defence when he is being attacked,implies that he should better accept self-destruction and simply dissappear.

[Catfish]

As long as the hardliners who currently rule Israel think that all problems have to be solved militarily, and at the same time continue to settle on questionable areas .. i can even understand them, however i can understand a lot of people, without ever thinking they are right.
I think the initial wrong way was England screwing the thing up before WW2, and right after it.

I will never understand, after the winning of the Nobel prize, that a right wing israeli assassin was able to kill Rabin, and immediately after this just of all a right wing hardliner like this asassin becoming head of the state WTF did they think they were doing ?

The dumbness of the people is unbelievable, certainly not only in Israel, but has anyone felt that be it democracies or dictatorships people are governed by egomanic dunderheads, with an agenda ?

Greetings,
Catfish

The dumbness of the people is unbelievable, certainly not only in Israel, but has anyone felt that be it democracies or dictatorships people are governed by egomanic dunderheads, with an agenda ?

True, if I may paraphrase Ami Izeroff.
Even if Avigdor only believes a fraction of what he campaigns for and says then he can only be described as a vile racist, but he deliberately paints himself as a racist anyway as that is what gets him votes.
So how does that measure against MHs claim that no one sponsors hatred?


@MH on another note.....

It doesn't seem that Israel will be overtaken in near future by right extemist wing party or left one.

....
the thing with the building and maintaining of fragile coilitions is that the government has to pander disproportionaly to the aims of whichever extremists it relies on to build its coilition.

BTW don't you find it funny that the real fundy extreme orthodox don't recognise the state of Israel, which puts them in the same camp as the theocracy in Iran

[Skybird]

Settlement policies are a problem, and a complex one. I think neither what is being demanded by the international community (divided Jerusalem) nor what Israel additionally is doing to nullify any attempt to regulate settlements, works well. Europe is extremely vulnerable to this unproven theory that you can just throw different, even hostile ethnic groups into one basin and then it all will be good (just look at the Balkans, where it is approaching violent unrest again, or Belgium, where at least the rifts are fought over in non-militant ways so far). Ringelpietz-mit-Händchen-halten und Friede-Freude-Eierkuchen may be cute to watch when the children in fancy dresses perform a christmas stage play in the church, but it is simply naivety to try that in powerpolitics and Realpolitik, it is no realistic perspective for so many places in the world.

Israel must stop to frequently attempt to drive new settlements into Palestinian areas, whereas the palestinioans better stop raising claims for a two-Jerusalems option.

For Israel, at least I can undersxtand from a rational point why they try to delay a two state soltuion. They are already so small in territorial size that they find it hard to defend that territory in any future war, and they have all reason to fear the pressure of arab and Palestinian demographics that destabilises their society both from within and from the outside. Like leaders building cities sometimes formed straight, wide boulevards from the city'S outer district into the cnetre in order to be able to shift military forces qucikly in case of riots, Israel tries to scatter the map so that it'S forces in case of need can reach and embark different areas as fast as possible, also they try to establish legal claims for property in order to get a future foothold even in areas where Palestinians try to break Israel by demographics (mind you, althoiugh they are so much in need of everything they have multiplied their population size by several factors in the past 60 years, I described the basic trends in different sources on population estimations on one of the previous pages).

I do not believe in the two-state-solution to be a lasting solution, and that it would bring peace to the ME, because the conflict is not only about issues that could be limited to just questions being adressed by this solution. It is also about a millenia-old inner-Islamic confrontation, a traditional rivalry of non-Israelic powers in that region, different ethnicities holstile to each other since I do not know how long, and a basic anti-semitism within Islam that has always been there since Muhammad fled to Medina and that would always hate Israel and Jewry for just being in existence, and being Jewish. If you go back to ancient times, this piece of land the ancestors of the current actors and powers have fought over already millenias ago, basing modern claims on according old, religiously ambitioned sagas.

But maybe a 2-state-solution would buy some time, 10 or 20 years, if they are lucky maybe even 30 or so. But the question must be asked: buying time - for what...? Negotiating the conditions of self-destruction of Israel? Even a Palestinian state, no matter it's form and size, will be enough. It will never be enough as long as the Jews maintain a state of their own in the area. and as already said, the reasons for conflict in the ME are complex and are not limited to just the existence of Israel or questions over the status of "Palestine". Where people live by the expectation that a state for the Palestinians would bring a lasting answer to conflicts of the present, they necessarily will be dissappointed sooner or later.

At least one nthing can be said about all sides: the religious claims that motivates all sides and always spill fuel into the fire - Muslims as well as Jews - do not help the people to get along any better with each other.

mind you, althoiugh they are so much in need of everything they have multiplied their population size by several factors in the past 60 years, I described the basic trends in different sources on population estimations on one of the previous pages

Ignorance strikes again.
Sky again choosing to be unable to read where his views are picked apart, but nothing new there as he still makes the same basic mistakes as he makes when it comes to his rants about european demographics.