Call it luck or karma, or random computer coding, but don't call it skill

Platapus · 04-17-10, 07:46 AM

There I was, no Shi...uh this really happened to me.

Left Pearl with a mission to drop off some supercargo on some island. Got there, waited until night and then crept to the shore to offload the supercargo. Boy does that boat have to make so much noise!!!

Afterward, I got orders to East China Sea.

Nothing not even a fishing boat. After being released from that area, I decided to patrol a little bit south. Nothing. I am the only movable object in the game.

Decide to head to Guam, might find something in the harbours.

Crept into one harbour, night time, low visibility, foggy, perfect sub sneaky time!

Find some medium floaty things but for some reason I can't lock on to the target. And, evidently, in SH4 if you can't lock on, you can't target.

I had a few medium cargos, at zero speed and I could not launch my torpedoes.

Was I doing something wrong? In SH3 you can actually manually enter stuff in to the TDC but if for some reason the computer won't let you lock onto a target in SH4, am I really SOL?

I even waited until it was about 1000 and the sun was shining but I still could not lock on. Nice juicy targets about 2000 yards on front of me with zero speed and all I could do is look at them

.

I unassed that harbour and headed to one on the other side of the island. Same thing happened!!!

Now I was faced with two possible explanations.

1. Something was wrong with the game
2. I was doing something wrong

Well the smart money always bets on number 2. I could not think of anything that would be wrong with the game.

So I leave that lovely harbour and continue a patrol. Run across a convoy, I was able to lock on to those ships just fine, but they were too fast for me.

Question: In SH4/RFB is locking onto ships in the harbours blocked?

Well, now I am really feeling down. Fuel running low. Time to head back to Pearl.

Cruising along when I hear "Merchant Sighted". Perhaps I will get a crumb to add to my blank log.

Start the plot. 7 knots, course 125. Gee I happen to be in a pretty good position for a Fast 90.

Wait a bit, fix the plot, I am actually on the course line, so I can actually just move a bit and set up for a Fast 90 using the aft torpedoes.

I set everything up and keep my damn finger off the TC controls (I have lost many a set up because I use TC incorrectly)

I finally can get a good look at my target. Looks like a tanker. Maybe a nice medium tanker 4,000 tons.

Hmm, seems to have a lot of big cranes.

Large Modern Tanker 10,000 tons.

Traveling without escort, not zig zagging.

And I just happen to be in a perfect position for a Fast 90 with the butt torpedoes.

If only I don't mess this up!

I actually sweating and my hands are shaking over this stupid video game.

Spread four torpedoes evenly along the tanker. Mk 14's but it is 1943.

Four nice explosions!

Takes a while to sink but she is a goner.

I went from 0 to 10,500 tons in one go.

Why was I and this tanker in the same location in the middle of the Pacific?

If I had not dicked around so much in the harbours, I would have missed it.

One thing is for sure, it was not due to any skill.

Things that make you go "Hmmm"

Any explanation as to why I could not lock on to stationary ships in foggy conditions while they were in the harbour?

And is there a way to truly manually target a ship? Would it be possible to just point my sub at the ship and somehow program the torpedoes to "just go that way"?

Fincuan · 04-17-10, 08:00 AM

You're playing with manual targeting right? If so then there's absolutely nothing that requires you to lock on a ship. Just enter the relevant data to the TDC and fire. Hell, I've sunk plenty of ships without ever seeing them using radar and sonar, which make this a joy on the Fleet boat side. I had to stop doing this though after accidentally sinking a jap carrier in a sonar-only attack as a u-boat

Harmsway! · 04-17-10, 08:15 AM

On my first patrol with RFB I didn't see much so I did just like you and went fishing in the harbor. Not a problem. Mine is set to manual targeting though. I don't remember if I got a lock. Isn't needed.

Capt. Morgan · 04-17-10, 10:17 AM

I've had a similar experience. Anchored ship, clearly visible, but unable to lock on - even at 1200 yds.

Sent her 2 torps. anyway, and she exploded nicely and went to the bottom, but no "she's going down" message, no tonnage, and no red ship icon on the map even though I watched her sink.

I'd guess is that it's a game glitch. I did notice that she was so close to the shore that when I zoomed the map out, her position was indicated as being on land, so maybe it happens if a ship spawns in the wrong place

Platapus · 04-17-10, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fincuan

You're playing with manual targeting right? If so then there's absolutely nothing that requires you to lock on a ship. Just enter the relevant data to the TDC and fire. Hell, I've sunk plenty of ships without ever seeing them using radar and sonar, which make this a joy on the Fleet boat side. I had to stop doing this though after accidentally sinking a jap carrier in a sonar-only attack as a u-boat

Yes I am using Manual Tartgeting. However, I kept getting an error message "unable to compute firing angle from bow/aft tubes".

Could you please explain to me how you were able to set up a solution without locking on to a ship? I tried but must have missed some thing.

It was so easy in SH3.

Much thanks.

Harmsway! · 04-17-10, 12:38 PM

Make sure the scope is at 0 or 180 before sending data to PK. The position keeper should be off. If you turn PK on it will crunch the data for a moving target that is locked. The target speed should to be set to zero of course.

Fincuan · 04-17-10, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Could you please explain to me how you were able to set up a solution without locking on to a ship? .

It's been a while since I did that in a Fleet boat(which I assume we're talking about here), but as far as I remember there were no special steps involved. Instead of using the stadimeter to get a range, which you can't do without locking, you'd just manually roll the indicator to some estimate and hit send-to-tdc. This also sends bearing. Then you'd just make sure speed is correct, zero for a stationary target naturally, and fire. For greater accuracy, unless you have radar or active sonar ranging data available, I'd recommend aiming for a zero gyroangle shot. As you probably know this takes range out of the equation completely.

Armistead · 04-17-10, 12:50 PM

Most likely you weren't close enough in the fog. I'm not sure about RFB, but with TMO with moderate fog sometimes you have to get fairly close to lock on.

I assume others explained how to shoot without locking on, rather simple. You can also check your torp track by going to your attack map to see the situation.

Diopos · 04-17-10, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Morgan

...
... so maybe it happens if a ship spawns in the wrong place

Mmmm!

IIRC if you hit a "big" ship (large draft) in port and it "sits" on the shoals its tonnage doesn't register.

Seems we're dealing with some of the code's boundary conditions.

Platapus · 04-17-10, 02:05 PM

So do I understand that in order to do a "non locked" shot, I need to have 0 gyro (sub pointing at target) and and just input, via the wheel, any range and speed 0?

Is this right?

Fincuan · 04-17-10, 03:34 PM

You don't have to have a zero gyro, but in the absence of good ranging data it's the best choice. Speed should be whatever the speed of the target is, same with AOB. I just mentioned zero speed because of your stationary targets, in which case AOB is irrelevant. Once again inputting any of these into the TDC is in no way dependant on locking a target.

magic452 · 04-17-10, 03:56 PM

Yep that will do it.
You can input range up to 1200 yards by pulling the range triangle, upper right , down all the way. Point the peri at 0° and turn so the peri is on the MOT of target and pull the range down and send to TDC. Speed = 0, AoB = 0 and bearing =0°
Give a degree or so gyro angle offset to spread the fish along the target.

There is a mod, TGT Dials to PK Fix that allows manual input of range but I have never been able to get it to work, bad download I think.

Magic

Munchausen · 04-17-10, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I kept getting an error message "unable to compute firing angle from bow/aft tubes".

That usually happens when you have aft tubes selected and the target is near the bow. Or vice versa.

Harmsway! · 04-17-10, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

So do I understand that in order to do a "non locked" shot, I need to have 0 gyro (sub pointing at target) and and just input, via the wheel, any range and speed 0?

Is this right?

The scope should be 0 (bow shot) or 180 (aft shot) when you send the data to the PK. If I'm not mistaken the sub doesn't have to be straight on. After the data is in you can point the scope to the bearing of the target as long as the gyro angle doesn't go past torpedo range.

Unfortunately RFB doesn't draw the gyro angle on the attack map. At least it doesn't for me. My attack map is useless. Or maybe I unknowingly disable it with some realism setting. I wish I knew more about the attack map how to make it useful. As it is I going to download the hydrophone fix to draw the lines on the map. Is that a cheat?

Keelbuster · 04-18-10, 10:51 AM

The way I understand it, when you send a range from the range tool on the left, this updates the TDC gyro angle based on the AoB and speed settings already in the computer. There is a weird thing where you have to click the send button twice - I saw this in a manual TDC video by Rockin Robbins. I'm not sure why you have to press it twice, or what the first send effect is, but for the computer to update the gyro, you need to press it twice. If you are getting the error message you said, it might be that the computed gyro angle is further than the torpedo allows (it can probably only turn like 90 degrees, or < 180). Hence if the computer is set to a stern shot, and you are trying to shoot at something ahead of you, it might not work. To fix this, switch to a bow tube and reset the gyro by sending the range (twice) again. This will update the computer and you should be able to take your shot.

For example, if I'm being attacked by a DD and I decide to take a 'snap' shot, I'll set the range dial to 400 yards, the speed to zero (and hence AoB doesn't matter) and then I'll just aim ahead of the DD's course (guess where he'll be in like 10 15 seconds), and then send the range twice. This will computer snap shot for an imaginary stopped target at that bearing. This is how you fire at non-moving ships in harbour. As everybody else has said, you don't need to lock a target to fire. The only reason you have to lock is to identify ships, and use the stadimeter tool. In some visibility conditions, you can't lock and hence can't ID and use the stad. But if they're in harbour, you know pretty well how far away they are. You can just dial the range into the TDC dial, and send it when pointing at the stopped ship...this will give you the correct gyro for the shot (but make sure you're on the appropriate torpedo tube - bow/stern).

04-17-10, 07:46 AM	#1
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,373 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Call it luck or karma, or random computer coding, but don't call it skill There I was, no Shi...uh this really happened to me. Left Pearl with a mission to drop off some supercargo on some island. Got there, waited until night and then crept to the shore to offload the supercargo. Boy does that boat have to make so much noise!!! Afterward, I got orders to East China Sea. Nothing not even a fishing boat. After being released from that area, I decided to patrol a little bit south. Nothing. I am the only movable object in the game. Decide to head to Guam, might find something in the harbours. Crept into one harbour, night time, low visibility, foggy, perfect sub sneaky time! Find some medium floaty things but for some reason I can't lock on to the target. And, evidently, in SH4 if you can't lock on, you can't target. I had a few medium cargos, at zero speed and I could not launch my torpedoes. Was I doing something wrong? In SH3 you can actually manually enter stuff in to the TDC but if for some reason the computer won't let you lock onto a target in SH4, am I really SOL? I even waited until it was about 1000 and the sun was shining but I still could not lock on. Nice juicy targets about 2000 yards on front of me with zero speed and all I could do is look at them . I unassed that harbour and headed to one on the other side of the island. Same thing happened!!! Now I was faced with two possible explanations. 1. Something was wrong with the game 2. I was doing something wrong Well the smart money always bets on number 2. I could not think of anything that would be wrong with the game. So I leave that lovely harbour and continue a patrol. Run across a convoy, I was able to lock on to those ships just fine, but they were too fast for me. Question: In SH4/RFB is locking onto ships in the harbours blocked? Well, now I am really feeling down. Fuel running low. Time to head back to Pearl. Cruising along when I hear "Merchant Sighted". Perhaps I will get a crumb to add to my blank log. Start the plot. 7 knots, course 125. Gee I happen to be in a pretty good position for a Fast 90. Wait a bit, fix the plot, I am actually on the course line, so I can actually just move a bit and set up for a Fast 90 using the aft torpedoes. I set everything up and keep my damn finger off the TC controls (I have lost many a set up because I use TC incorrectly) I finally can get a good look at my target. Looks like a tanker. Maybe a nice medium tanker 4,000 tons. Hmm, seems to have a lot of big cranes. Large Modern Tanker 10,000 tons. Traveling without escort, not zig zagging. And I just happen to be in a perfect position for a Fast 90 with the butt torpedoes. If only I don't mess this up! I actually sweating and my hands are shaking over this stupid video game. Spread four torpedoes evenly along the tanker. Mk 14's but it is 1943. Four nice explosions! Takes a while to sink but she is a goner. I went from 0 to 10,500 tons in one go. Why was I and this tanker in the same location in the middle of the Pacific? If I had not dicked around so much in the harbours, I would have missed it. One thing is for sure, it was not due to any skill. Things that make you go "Hmmm" Any explanation as to why I could not lock on to stationary ships in foggy conditions while they were in the harbour? And is there a way to truly manually target a ship? Would it be possible to just point my sub at the ship and somehow program the torpedoes to "just go that way"? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-17-10, 10:17 AM	#4
Capt. Morgan Commander Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Just east of the west coast. Posts: 463 Downloads: 423 Uploads: 0	I've had a similar experience. Anchored ship, clearly visible, but unable to lock on - even at 1200 yds. Sent her 2 torps. anyway, and she exploded nicely and went to the bottom, but no "she's going down" message, no tonnage, and no red ship icon on the map even though I watched her sink. I'd guess is that it's a game glitch. I did notice that she was so close to the shore that when I zoomed the map out, her position was indicated as being on land, so maybe it happens if a ship spawns in the wrong place __________________ There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet. -- Admiral William Halsey

04-17-10, 02:05 PM	#10
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,373 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	So do I understand that in order to do a "non locked" shot, I need to have 0 gyro (sub pointing at target) and and just input, via the wheel, any range and speed 0? Is this right? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-17-10, 03:56 PM	#12
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Yep that will do it. You can input range up to 1200 yards by pulling the range triangle, upper right , down all the way. Point the peri at 0° and turn so the peri is on the MOT of target and pull the range down and send to TDC. Speed = 0, AoB = 0 and bearing =0° Give a degree or so gyro angle offset to spread the fish along the target. There is a mod, TGT Dials to PK Fix that allows manual input of range but I have never been able to get it to work, bad download I think. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l Last edited by magic452; 04-17-10 at 04:19 PM.

04-18-10, 10:51 AM	#15
Keelbuster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: BA 72 Posts: 1,092 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	The way I understand it, when you send a range from the range tool on the left, this updates the TDC gyro angle based on the AoB and speed settings already in the computer. There is a weird thing where you have to click the send button twice - I saw this in a manual TDC video by Rockin Robbins. I'm not sure why you have to press it twice, or what the first send effect is, but for the computer to update the gyro, you need to press it twice. If you are getting the error message you said, it might be that the computed gyro angle is further than the torpedo allows (it can probably only turn like 90 degrees, or < 180). Hence if the computer is set to a stern shot, and you are trying to shoot at something ahead of you, it might not work. To fix this, switch to a bow tube and reset the gyro by sending the range (twice) again. This will update the computer and you should be able to take your shot. For example, if I'm being attacked by a DD and I decide to take a 'snap' shot, I'll set the range dial to 400 yards, the speed to zero (and hence AoB doesn't matter) and then I'll just aim ahead of the DD's course (guess where he'll be in like 10 15 seconds), and then send the range twice. This will computer snap shot for an imaginary stopped target at that bearing. This is how you fire at non-moving ships in harbour. As everybody else has said, you don't need to lock a target to fire. The only reason you have to lock is to identify ships, and use the stadimeter tool. In some visibility conditions, you can't lock and hence can't ID and use the stad. But if they're in harbour, you know pretty well how far away they are. You can just dial the range into the TDC dial, and send it when pointing at the stopped ship...this will give you the correct gyro for the shot (but make sure you're on the appropriate torpedo tube - bow/stern). __________________

04-17-10, 08:00 AM	#2
Fincuan Admiral Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Suomi, sauna, puukko, perkele Posts: 2,346 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	You're playing with manual targeting right? If so then there's absolutely nothing that requires you to lock on a ship. Just enter the relevant data to the TDC and fire. Hell, I've sunk plenty of ships without ever seeing them using radar and sonar, which make this a joy on the Fleet boat side. I had to stop doing this though after accidentally sinking a jap carrier in a sonar-only attack as a u-boat

04-17-10, 08:15 AM	#3
Harmsway! XO Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 400 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	On my first patrol with RFB I didn't see much so I did just like you and went fishing in the harbor. Not a problem. Mine is set to manual targeting though. I don't remember if I got a lock. Isn't needed.

04-17-10, 12:38 PM	#6
Harmsway! XO Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 400 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	Make sure the scope is at 0 or 180 before sending data to PK. The position keeper should be off. If you turn PK on it will crunch the data for a moving target that is locked. The target speed should to be set to zero of course.

04-17-10, 12:50 PM	#8
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Most likely you weren't close enough in the fog. I'm not sure about RFB, but with TMO with moderate fog sometimes you have to get fairly close to lock on. I assume others explained how to shoot without locking on, rather simple. You can also check your torp track by going to your attack map to see the situation.

04-17-10, 03:34 PM	#11
Fincuan Admiral Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Suomi, sauna, puukko, perkele Posts: 2,346 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	You don't have to have a zero gyro, but in the absence of good ranging data it's the best choice. Speed should be whatever the speed of the target is, same with AOB. I just mentioned zero speed because of your stationary targets, in which case AOB is irrelevant. Once again inputting any of these into the TDC is in no way dependant on locking a target.