Why end in 1943?

[CCIP]

So, to put it in very quick mathematical perspective -

Between June 1943 and May 1945 (the part NOT included in SHV), what we have is
17.2% of total U-boat successes and 67.1% of U-boat losses.

If we do a quick-and-dirty correlation of this to the total lives lost in the Battle of the Atlantic as a whole, you are looking at around 5,200 merchant marine seamen, and 18,800 U-boat men who lost their lives during this time.

(*on the other hand, here's another sobering statistic for you - the total number of deaths on both sides in this tragic period of the Atlantic battle is less than 1/3 the number of people instantly killed by the bomb at Hiroshima, and about 1.7% of the total number of people killed at Auschwitz (i.e. 58 times less). Talk about perspective...)

[SabreHawk]

Excellent CCIP.

And as all we Das Boot fans know, of the 30,000 men who went to sea in those Uboats in all the war, by the end only 10,000 ever returned.

Even the film is an excellent example of things, even at the time that boat sailed. I mean how many ships did they sink on that patrol? Three maybe I think it was?
And then Bdu stupidly sent them on a suicide mission through the Gibraltar straits where they nearly lost the boat and crew, and then only to return to port to have it sunk at the pier, the captain and many of the crew killed and not even on the boat but on dry land.

[CCIP]

I think one point that the devs missed in the design of this game is that sinking ships is not all there is to a good U-boat sim. In fact for me sinking ships has always been a very small part of why I enjoy Silent Hunter games. Yet between the early war end, the overdone fireworks and the ludicrous tonnage goals, you can see where the focus of this game is, sadly... However the full-boat and crew elements are a good sign for the other side.

The fact is that blowing up ships is messy business, but it's not massively different from any other kind of game as far as gameplay goes. It's trying to survive where things get really strange and interesting in U-boat sims. That's why I always found late war interesting.

[blechritter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_May_(1943)

[SabreHawk]

And then again sometimes im just happy to just go sailing along enjoying the sea and the boat not wanting to blow anything up at all, nor concerned with "game play"

I wish they'd do a sim based on just sailing and boating that sports SH5's engine and graphics.
So few of this kind.
Virtual Sailor is ok, but it's graphics and such dont come close. If it had SH5's graphics though................

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

But yes, if SH5 sells well we'll probably see an x-pack adding the later war years and at least one more u-boat type -- I'm guessing the Type IX.

^^ This^^

All so they can sell you an expansion pack later on....which Im OK with provided UBI would have release a COMPLETE game that was at leas 80% bug free.... we have neither.

[CCIP]

I'm fine with a narrow-focus, study sim. But yeah, I'm not quite sure I can call SH5 a particularly successful study sim as yet. On the other hand the benchmark of study simulations, Falcon 4.0, was completely unplayable when it was released - and look at it now. Almost 12 years (not to mention 11 years since last official patch) and still going very strong. Community support can make all the difference.

The choice to end the war then and there is a bit odd - it doesn't completely turn me off, but as a design decision... I'm not convinced it was made why it was said to be made.

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

I must say I have absolutely no patience for the constant (and intellectually dishonest) rationale that the Battle of the Atlantic was over in '43.

How many tons of Allied shipping was sunk from '43 on? How many Allied sailors were drowned? How many U-boat crews were destroyed? I'm sure someone has these statistics at their fingertips.

Tell the dead men who died that this battle was "over" after '43.

Spin it how you like. This rationale simply doesn't hold water in the face of historical fact.

What is also missing is the assumption this game could have made in respect to "if you do WELL and meet objectives, how could the battle have turned?"

A lot went into the fact that after May 1943 the War in the Atlantic was over.

One example is had German intel been CORRECT in identifying the FACT that Allied aircraft were in FACT using newer radar (Centametric?? radar) instead of thinking this kind of radar could never have been flown in planes as it was to large, then things may have indeed changed in favor of the Uboats. They would have had radar detection devices that would have detected this radar miles out.... Instead Uboat men were told that thier radar detection devices were giving away thier position.... This is just ONE example.

Add to that a diminishing supply of Iron (All the metal was going for the Luftwaffe, then tanks for the army, then artillery, THEN the Uboats got what was left) left Germnay without the capacity to build up the Uboat arm like Adm. Doenitz suggested (as well as Adm. Raeder) in 1935 and on..... Had Hitler let the KM build the number of uboats they wanted from the get go... the war would have ended long before 1943, and it would have ended with England in a stranglehold.

[Salvadoreno]

Wow i cant believe so many are actually supporting the fact the UBI has intentionally left out 43-45 because they wanted to make more $$$ on an xpack....

A polished and concentrated effort on the first game???? Hmm jugding from the subsim review, many user complaints, and the endless bugs being reported... This is far from a effort from UBI to release a good 1st halve of the war...

I mean common guys... The game sounds flawed, thank god for dedicated mods that are springing up like weeds to fix this so-called disaster of a game.

In SH3 some of my most intense moments were the biscay run., the endless crash dives, and the INCREDIBLE sense of accomplishment if you actually found a convoy, successfully penetrated the screen, sunk at least ONE boat, and returned to port safely.. How on EARTH could you leave out a part of the war in a WWII SIM?!?!?? This is just mind boggling.

After reading so many complaints but also reading the upside, i was about to spend my 50 some dollars on a game that was already being fixed by mods. Then i heard it ended in 1943.... What a killer .

No Operation Drumbeat?? No special missions to Japan?? No Milk Cows?? AND NO WOLFPACKS!?!?! Ugh this just sucks soo bad. I was so excited when i heard Sh5 was coming out, i was even prepared to buy the unfinished product. WHY must i always be dissapointed by developers who stopped giving a ****!?!?

The last game i bought and enjoyed was Company of Heroes.. Jesus even that game was bugged but it still was more polished than most games.

::rant rant:: Okay im done now.. Back to just stalking the forums and mod forum and wait for a big change. But i would like to say..

YOU MODS ARE ANGELS SENT FROM HEAVEN!!!!! THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIRELESS EFFORTS TO MAKE A TERRIBLE GAME WORTH PLAYING, AND FOR THE SELFLESS REASON OF MAKING A GOOD GAME FOR US TARDS WHO DONT KNOW HOW TO CODE!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

[U-96]

I would imagine cause 1943 was the last year U-Boats stood any chance in the Atlantic, from late 43 on they were pretty much steel coffins. Even with the few boats who got the Schnorkel, it was nearly impossible to do any good out there. And since SH5 seems to be a more personal experience then a technical one, It would make sense to end it in 1943

[Hartmann]

The atlantic war was lost for three main causes

Enigma code breaking
insuficient Radar tech
No develop XXI XXIII in time

if germany had several XXI units at may of 1943 things could be a lot different.

Ubi don´t release a complete game because they don´t had enough time to depelop complex Radars and IX boats , not because the war was over.

It´s not very difficult make a campaign with a end placed in 1943 with the possibility of continue as an option. or let the player choose if he want´s to play late years

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by Hartmann

The atlantic war was lost for three main causes

Enigma code breaking
insuficient Radar tech
No develop XXI XXIII in time

if germany had several XXI units at may of 1943 things could be a lot different.

Ubi don´t release a complete game because they don´t had enough time to depelop complex Radars and IX boats , not because the war was over.

It´s not very difficult make a campaign with a end placed in 1943 with the possibility of continue as an option. or let the player choose if he want´s to play late years

You missed Two important factors.

Almost all of their experienced Captains and crews were either dead or captured by late '43 while the Allies were getting to be expert Hunter/Killers.

As well their national infrastructure was at the point of being almost completely destroyed so whether they could keep those boats at sea was debateable. They were in the same position as the Japanese after Midway. No amount of technology could make up for the fact that the Germans were getting weaker and weaker while the Allies were getting stronger.

JCC

[vanjast]

So Ubi have given us half a game, at full price ???

[OakGroove]

KM U-Boats set out to sea till 05/45, no rhetoric or afterthought will change these events. As for ending the game ´43 and providing just a single boat type; i cannot make out a valid reason other than trying to monetize various game aspects.

[OakGroove]

Originally Posted by vanjast

So Ubi have given us half a game, at full price ???