The facts of life: A heartfelt defense of Ubisoft and DRM - Page 3

bobc · 03-09-10, 02:17 PM

I consider myself to be a prety good customer of Ubisoft's. I have let me see, Il2 Sturmovik, Il2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles, Pacific Fighters, Il2 1946 (I even bought that Bounty patch), Silent Hunter III, Silent Hunter IV, Silent Hunter U-Boat Missions, Silent HUnter V + Assassins Creed 1 & 2. I installed Silenet Hunter V last night and it took around 6 or 7 tries to get logged on. I did get logged on eventually and finished the 1st mission without getting sunk

. The always on Internet connection is a PIA but I don't really see it lasting for ever, saying that if it does I will assume that it will get better as they get more experience with the various loads. DRM?, this is because of the movie and music industries refusal to adjust to the Internet and now its spread to the games industry. Another poster mentioned Stardock and Matrix games, I agree with his / her assessment that that is a better way of combating piracy and a lot simpler too. We all missed our chance to stop the DRM battle years ago when the Movie and Music industies started sueing people left right and centre. There should have been a boycott then pure and simple. The current power in the world is the US, they are run and to an extent governed by corporate lobbying and market qtr results, till that is fixed everyone else is following suit.
S!

03-09-10, 02:27 PM

Noting else but Propaganda Thread IMO. Or the attempt to reach your hearts and gain some sort of symphaty or tolerance to what is plain mind****ing lol

03-09-10, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Once again, a brand new poster supports Ubi.

I have better things to do with my life than post about fake submarines 5000 times.

Commie · 03-09-10, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Im not saying this to be difficult, but i've never heard of any of the games you mentioned. I think i heard of galactic civilizations once, but thats just because i run in paradox interactive circles and that games is brought up as a continuation of the series often.

Also, console chipping is a pain in the ass, i've tried reflashing my xbox 360 and it failed miserably (before you say anything, this is before i developed my current stance on software piracy. You know, hearing facts and input and changing your mind? Anyone???) PC piracy can all be done with stock equipment and software.

Matrix Games makes and publishes wargames, such as ones by the guru Gary Grisby and all the Close Combat, Harpoon games for example. They are a niche market but are doing well without a crappy DRM.

Stardocks Galactic Civilizations II is a 4x space empire game that had sold over 300,000 copies BEFORE the release of even the last and best expansion for it in 2008. They kept patching and improving the game until late last year. So probably sold off 400,000 copies by now or more and without any DRM at all. They even had to suffer from a Starforce employee telling people where to get pirated copies of this game as they were annoyed that someone dared to release a game without a copy protection they were peddling!

You know of Paradox, and so you must know that they are doing fine without DRM and for a small company of a niche genre you'd think that piracy would be a devastating problem, but it isn't! Why not?

Face it, people most people that pirate wouldn't have bought the game anyway. On the other hand, piracy actually tends to increase purchases by undecided players who try the game, and get a desire for the online component. Yep, piracy helps sales.

vonce1 · 03-09-10, 02:33 PM

serial numbers to install and play and CD-in requirements are fine; always online during the gameplay is not. I couldn't play a whole day yesterday because the DRM. I got VERY angry and intended to ship the game back to amazon..today it works luckily, but until the next DDoS attack? why paying customer is being punished? they could've come up with something better to protect their rights because this is obviously not working very well

BTW, I also bought Arma2 together with SH5 - why is it that the game doesn't have any online DRM and CD doesn't even have to be in the slot to play the game? Still sells well I guess? Those guys still make $$$ OK apparently? Honest folks BUYING it, that's why.

Why companies like UBI think that if they don't protect the product with ridiculously restrictive DRM that we'll ALL automatically steal it? What a hell of assumption. We ARE NOT all thieves. There is not a single product on my PC that I wouldn't pay for, and yes I paid for my Photoshop CS4 as well, and that costs way more then *******n copies of all the Silent Hunter series altogether.... I repeat, we, paying customers, are not all thieves. But UBI assumes that we are. Crap. Last game I ever bought from them if they'll insist that we'll steal the product if we can.... there are honest people around, people who BUY software, not steal it. We, customers, are not thieves. Those who use cracked games are, but they wouldn't buy the product anyway, so you can't talk about lost sales....the UBI tech support guy told me yesterday that their last game (I don't remember the title) turned out only 8% of paying customers so that's why the new online DRM. OK, 8% of whom? - it's eight percent of the world, not eight percent of potential customers. They got their math all ********n wrong.

tater · 03-09-10, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

I have better things to do with my life than post about fake submarines 5000 times.

Gotcha. No time to post about all your mods you've authored—and support them—but plenty of time to post about someone else's post count, and plenty of time to support a ridiculous DRM scheme by Ubi.

03-09-10, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

plenty of time to post about someone else's post count

It only took a few seconds sir, it was very simple

Spartan · 03-09-10, 02:40 PM

For what it is worth, I would rather have Ubi get out of the PC market all together and give up the SH franchise to an independent developer and publisher than to put up with its useless DRM antics that ONLY hurt legitimate users.

michaelws · 03-09-10, 02:40 PM

There are always people on "both" sides of issues that are posted to the forums that don't want to admit they are wrong. I have been one of those in the past and will probably be right there in the future to cut off my nose to spite my face.

There is also validity to both sides of this issue. The study of economics is the learning of a process by which any suffering, regardless of the side it comes down on is the least that can be effected...

I believe most of the voices, even the ones that speak the loudest here, on both sides, are impassioned by their desire to play this simulation...I do not believe any of them are hoping to make a statement that would end a simulation evolving as Silent Hunter has striven to do over the years. Even the ones who make blasphemous comments...in their own way they are praising the simulation. If they truly didn't care about the game they would not even invest the time to post to the threads. There are trolls on every forum...who just like to strike and shock under the cloak of anonymity...but they are a small minority.

I WANT to get version 5. I have all the earlier versions of Silent Hunter and loved them and I was really looking forward to installing 5...but in reading a lot of the threads, even the ones that have been shut down, I really do hear the pleas of those who cannot play this game through no fault of their own. It is my CHOICE to stand by them for I find their argument credible and I would like to be a voice to UBISOFT on the side of correcting the DRM requirements...or ammending it so that you do not have to be online constantly to play single player.

I do not believe that any company that values it's customers will shy away from bad news, especially constructive criticism. That would definitely spell their demise.

Commie · 03-09-10, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

I have better things to do with my life than post about fake submarines 5000 times.

He he but you still like to come here and defend UBIsoft's DRM OF something about FAKE SUBMARINES? They way you're going, you'll reach 5000 of your own posts by the morning !

John Channing · 03-09-10, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schunken

Matt, you read my post?

Two simple sentences from Ubisoft:

"We apologize to our costumers for the problems with the game and the DRM. In the future we will do our best that this will not happen again!"

This simple public statement in the UBI SH5 Forum and I would be pleased at least.

This has nothing to do with shareholder value and nothing to do with earn money...

Its a simple rule: When you make a mistake than apologize.... very easy to do, isnt?

Andreas

Quote:

Our servers endured a massive DDoS attack. Around 5 per cent of people attempting to connect between 8:30 a.m. and 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time on Sunday received denial of service errors. We apologize to anybody who wasn’t able to play Assassin’s Creed II or Silent Hunter 5 yesterday.

The Toronto Globe and Mail
March 8/2010

Quote:

Apologies to anyone who couldn't play ACII or SH5 yesterday. Servers were attacked which limited service from 2:30pm to 9pm Paris time

Ubisoft Twitter Account
March 8/2010

Quote:

Servers were attacked and while the servers did not go down, service was limited from 2.30pm to 9pm Paris time,” they explained to the big EG. They also apologise to those who were affected by this...

Rockpapershotgun.com
March 8/2010

Quote:

Apologies to anyone who couldn't play ACII or SH5 yesterday," Ubisoft said...

The Register.co.uk
March 8/2010

Enough? There is lots more.

JCC

03-09-10, 02:59 PM

Look, im not saying there arent issues. I'm saying the DRM makes sense, is better than what was offered in the past, and i have faith that they will work to solve problems.

They open a radical new service for their customers, and the launch of 2 huge games PLUS (apperantly) hacker attacks, and these are the only issues they have? I remember buying HL2 on steam in 2003 or 2004, now THAT was a pain in the ass

I'm just sick of seeing this forum clogged with the same thread over and over.

Look guys, an internet forum is like a cable news network, all of us are just a bunch of nobodies with time to kill and a 24/7 audience to blab to. Do we talk about torpedo angles and submarine coatings, or do we pretend that there is some great moral outrage and we are somehow defenders of justice? Which feels right to you?

martes86 · 03-09-10, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

You guys do know that somewhere out there a game developer probibly is losing his house right now because his company couldnt afford to keep him on, right? Or do you guys not care about hypothetical people?

As a real software developer, I can tell you I'd prefer to lose my job a 1000 times over than screwing with my customers, which I think is unprofessional and plain wrong. And even if I lost my job, there'd sure be lots of IT jobs I could get in, it's not like we're in some undeveloped industry, there's a great demand of IT professionals in this modern world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

[...] and made a commitment to support this game years into the future (another benefit of episodic releases)

Wrong... the game is actually supported for as long as patches are being developed, and not all things are necessarily fixed. In Ubisoft, I think that's no longer than 1 year. Sure, other titles keep getting released, which shows some support of the franchise (and the will of the Devs to keep doing cool stuff), but... would you say that SH3 is still being supported? Or SH4? They could have used at least an additional patch or 2. SH5 is out so continued support of older titles is probably pointless, but it's not like support was dropped today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

I have better things to do with my life than post about fake submarines 5000 times.

Is it me, or does it smells like trolls?

Schunken · 03-09-10, 03:18 PM

You get a Point John, thats true...

...but should it not be in the official SH5 Ubi Forum than on Twitter or 3rd party webpages???

The UBI Forums would be the 1st place where a apology should be adressed, isnt?

...at least its my foul as a german not read the Toronto Globe and Mail....

Andreas

tater · 03-09-10, 03:22 PM

John, all those apologies LIED.

The timeframe they presented was a handful of hours. We all know it was FAR longer than 2:30-9 or 9:30 pm.

Maybe 2:30 pm Saturday to well, didn't ducimus post about problems TODAY?

That's like having an airline cancel your flight, put you on a new flight 9 hours later, then sending you an email apologizing for the 2 hour delay.

03-09-10, 02:33 PM	#35
vonce1 A-ganger Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 79 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	serial numbers to install and play and CD-in requirements are fine; always online during the gameplay is not. I couldn't play a whole day yesterday because the DRM. I got VERY angry and intended to ship the game back to amazon..today it works luckily, but until the next DDoS attack? why paying customer is being punished? they could've come up with something better to protect their rights because this is obviously not working very well BTW, I also bought Arma2 together with SH5 - why is it that the game doesn't have any online DRM and CD doesn't even have to be in the slot to play the game? Still sells well I guess? Those guys still make $$$ OK apparently? Honest folks BUYING it, that's why. Why companies like UBI think that if they don't protect the product with ridiculously restrictive DRM that we'll ALL automatically steal it? What a hell of assumption. We ARE NOT all thieves. There is not a single product on my PC that I wouldn't pay for, and yes I paid for my Photoshop CS4 as well, and that costs way more then *****n copies of all the Silent Hunter series altogether.... I repeat, we, paying customers, are not all thieves. But UBI assumes that we are. Crap. Last game I ever bought from them if they'll insist that we'll steal the product if we can.... there are honest people around, people who BUY software, not steal it. We, customers, are not thieves. Those who use cracked games are, but they wouldn't buy the product anyway, so you can't talk about lost sales....the UBI tech support guy told me yesterday that their last game (I don't remember the title) turned out only 8% of paying customers so that's why the new online DRM. OK, 8% of whom? - it's eight percent of the world, not eight percent of potential customers. They got their math all ******n wrong. __________________

03-09-10, 02:17 PM	#31
bobc Nub Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Cork, Ireland Posts: 4 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	I consider myself to be a prety good customer of Ubisoft's. I have let me see, Il2 Sturmovik, Il2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles, Pacific Fighters, Il2 1946 (I even bought that Bounty patch), Silent Hunter III, Silent Hunter IV, Silent Hunter U-Boat Missions, Silent HUnter V + Assassins Creed 1 & 2. I installed Silenet Hunter V last night and it took around 6 or 7 tries to get logged on. I did get logged on eventually and finished the 1st mission without getting sunk . The always on Internet connection is a PIA but I don't really see it lasting for ever, saying that if it does I will assume that it will get better as they get more experience with the various loads. DRM?, this is because of the movie and music industries refusal to adjust to the Internet and now its spread to the games industry. Another poster mentioned Stardock and Matrix games, I agree with his / her assessment that that is a better way of combating piracy and a lot simpler too. We all missed our chance to stop the DRM battle years ago when the Movie and Music industies started sueing people left right and centre. There should have been a boycott then pure and simple. The current power in the world is the US, they are run and to an extent governed by corporate lobbying and market qtr results, till that is fixed everyone else is following suit. S!

03-09-10, 02:27 PM	#32
Indietro Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Noting else but Propaganda Thread IMO. Or the attempt to reach your hearts and gain some sort of symphaty or tolerance to what is plain mind****ing lol

03-09-10, 02:40 PM	#38
Spartan Sailor man Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 50 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	For what it is worth, I would rather have Ubi get out of the PC market all together and give up the SH franchise to an independent developer and publisher than to put up with its useless DRM antics that ONLY hurt legitimate users.

03-09-10, 02:40 PM	#39
michaelws Seaman Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kailua-Kona, Hawaii Posts: 38 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	There are always people on "both" sides of issues that are posted to the forums that don't want to admit they are wrong. I have been one of those in the past and will probably be right there in the future to cut off my nose to spite my face. There is also validity to both sides of this issue. The study of economics is the learning of a process by which any suffering, regardless of the side it comes down on is the least that can be effected... I believe most of the voices, even the ones that speak the loudest here, on both sides, are impassioned by their desire to play this simulation...I do not believe any of them are hoping to make a statement that would end a simulation evolving as Silent Hunter has striven to do over the years. Even the ones who make blasphemous comments...in their own way they are praising the simulation. If they truly didn't care about the game they would not even invest the time to post to the threads. There are trolls on every forum...who just like to strike and shock under the cloak of anonymity...but they are a small minority. I WANT to get version 5. I have all the earlier versions of Silent Hunter and loved them and I was really looking forward to installing 5...but in reading a lot of the threads, even the ones that have been shut down, I really do hear the pleas of those who cannot play this game through no fault of their own. It is my CHOICE to stand by them for I find their argument credible and I would like to be a voice to UBISOFT on the side of correcting the DRM requirements...or ammending it so that you do not have to be online constantly to play single player. I do not believe that any company that values it's customers will shy away from bad news, especially constructive criticism. That would definitely spell their demise.

03-09-10, 02:59 PM	#42
MattDizzle Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Look, im not saying there arent issues. I'm saying the DRM makes sense, is better than what was offered in the past, and i have faith that they will work to solve problems. They open a radical new service for their customers, and the launch of 2 huge games PLUS (apperantly) hacker attacks, and these are the only issues they have? I remember buying HL2 on steam in 2003 or 2004, now THAT was a pain in the ass I'm just sick of seeing this forum clogged with the same thread over and over. Look guys, an internet forum is like a cable news network, all of us are just a bunch of nobodies with time to kill and a 24/7 audience to blab to. Do we talk about torpedo angles and submarine coatings, or do we pretend that there is some great moral outrage and we are somehow defenders of justice? Which feels right to you?

03-09-10, 03:18 PM	#44
Schunken Medic Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 168 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	You get a Point John, thats true... ...but should it not be in the official SH5 Ubi Forum than on Twitter or 3rd party webpages??? The UBI Forums would be the 1st place where a apology should be adressed, isnt? ...at least its my foul as a german not read the Toronto Globe and Mail.... Andreas

03-09-10, 03:22 PM	#45
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	John, all those apologies LIED. The timeframe they presented was a handful of hours. We all know it was FAR longer than 2:30-9 or 9:30 pm. Maybe 2:30 pm Saturday to well, didn't ducimus post about problems TODAY? That's like having an airline cancel your flight, put you on a new flight 9 hours later, then sending you an email apologizing for the 2 hour delay.