I give up.

[Jimbuna]

A good informative original post Mark

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

A good informative original post Mark

I wish it weren't, Jim. I keep going back...I'm trying to like it. At least some of the very early mods, such as the ones that add the compass and the one that removes morale costs for things are at least temporary band-aids. Keeping your TC low also prevents map contacts from disappearing - I think this may help when trying to intercept ships. That is one of the most glaring problems at this point: a watch crew that doesn't watch. I need to know as soon as something is spotted. Without that functionality, I am reduced to having to man the watch in real time myself, and I just don't have the time or patience to do that.

I keep hoping and hoping that patches and mods will turn this into something great, because I think it can be. It's just going to take a while.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I keep hoping and hoping that patches and mods will turn this into something great, because I think it can be. It's just going to take a while.

Rgr that mate

[EnDSchultz]

I don't see why everyone's so surprised. It seems obvious game companies aren't in the business of making high-quality software anymore. They're in the business of hyping people up and releasing a piece of garbage as cheaply as possible. Steam makes this even easier, because they don't even have to pay for the production of so many hard copies, yet still have thousands of hapless fools buy their 'game' for $50 on release day without the possibility of a refund. Then they can throw a few bones in the form of patches to make the game almost playable in hopes the modders will do the rest.

Don't be so upset about the game, just accept that it wasn't meant to please anybody, but rather to make an easy buck.

[Frederf]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Commanding my crew? I'm sorry I might be missing something but I have not seen anywhere I can command my crew to change course, speed, or just about anything other than ask about their mother or go to battle stations.

You're talking about the SH5 way of doing things. I'm talking about the mythological "right way" where you click on the appropriate crew member or speaking tube and through a momentary pop up rattle off an order to a specific crew member with precision, speed, and realism.

Originally Posted by CCIP

I think you need to remember that we're playing a game here. The interface will always be a compromise until we have computers so smart that we will actually be able to talk to our crew (and no, voice command with pre-set phrases doesn't quite count).

There is no problem with an interface, as long as it a) allows you to maintain precise situational awareness; b) allows you to issue precise commands, especially as far as controlling the orientation of your sub. How that's done should definitely be seen within reasonable technological limits and user habits - so fine, make it accessible via clicks. Just as long as it's possible to get information and give orders on something as basic as submarine orientation quickly.

The UI should avoid whenever possible reminding you that you are playing a game. Wanting a "gamey" interface over something potentially more natural is not where my head is at. The interface may be a compromise but what's capable with mouse interaction is far beyond the antiquated method used in SH3/4. Quickness of control and readiness of information is not an end to itself. If you're in the aft torp room and the closest repeater compass is 3 compartments away then knowing your heading should require you to go look and not float magically in your vision even when in the W.C. The ease of control and immediacy of information should mirror real life and not simply strive to be easier on the gamer.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Frederf

. Quickness of control and readiness of information is not an end to itself. If you're in the aft torp room and the closest repeater compass is 3 compartments away then knowing your heading should require you to go look and not float magically in your vision even when in the W.C. The ease of control and immediacy of information should mirror real life and not simply strive to be easier on the gamer.

I would disagree with that - the problem is that the whole submarine is connected by voice/telephone, and you would be able to get that information and give orders a lot quicker in reality than the time it'd take you to walk to the compass.

I would be absolutely fine with something like that, but if at the same time it was somehow possible to just elicit the information from the crew and issue all the orders you need. Since that's not technologically possible right now, I think an overlay interface like this is a fair enough compromise.

[starbird]

As a captain, I'm pretty sure I could yell out 'whats our course' from anywhere on the boat and get an answer. There are about 40 other people onboard, surely someone is near a repeater and can read it.

[Steeltrap]

The thing I cannot understand is why developers have difficulty recreating what is such a well documented period of history.

Want to know how a submarine was run or commanded? How it performed in technical terms? What was possible and what was not? Read about it in the thousands of documents, including those written by the military organisations that owned and operated the subs. If that's not good enough for you, read about it in the published memoirs of those who were there and did the jobs. As an example, there's enough material in Dick O'Kane's books, Clear the Bridge and Wahoo, to simulate a WWII USA Fleet Boat to any level of detail you like.

How they can come up with what I'm reading about SH5 beggars belief.

People can discuss the interface all they like, but the central point remains: if you are pretending to simulate the experiences of a commander of a submarine in WWII then it should be representative of the collective records available. It seems to me it is anything but.

[CCIP]

As I mentioned elsewhere though, is that what the game was really trying to do? I really don't think so. I don't think this game is trying to be Clay Blair's U-boat War, it's trying to be Das Boot (and more the movie than the book). This doesn't mean it has to be inaccurate, nor does it excuse the errors, but I think it's not necessarily accurate to see the game's goal as presenting an absolute, as-it-happened, statistically-accurate reality. Why that is the case is a much longer discussion.

[Iron Budokan]

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

People can discuss the interface all they like, but the central point remains: if you are pretending to simulate the experiences of a commander of a submarine in WWII then it should be representative of the collective records available. It seems to me it is anything but.

But, see, I think that's the point.

Ubi made a corporate decision to move this game from "simulation" to something resembling arcade and RPG, even including unlockable content which is pure console. Therefore, they didn't have to concentrate on simulating the experiences of a U-boat commander to the degree we had become accustomed to, or many of us wanted, because the game they were developing didn't need those hard core simulation elements in it.

In other words, they knew they were dumbing it down. So why bother to include content that would clash with the arcade profile they had decided upon?

Else, how can you possibly explain the missing compass? In a naval war game, of all games....?

[brett25]

thanks for this review. It seems like a series of bad review are now coming out as the game finds itself on more and more PC. There was a positive first wave, but this review feels very honest to me, and I wonder f the positive ones were from people who will laud this game to hang on to a point or to bolster a position they may have...This review is confirming everything I was worried about all along.

I will not be buying SH5 for a while now...SH3 is just fine, thanks


But SH5 sure is purty and all....

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Already fixed with a little mod. No need to complain now.

Correction: Already worked around with a little mod. Not fixed at all. Big difference.

[Wolfmanjack]

Originally Posted by brett25

thanks for this review. It seems like a series of bad review are now coming out as the game finds itself on more and more PC. There was a positive first wave, but this review feels very honest to me, and I wonder f the positive ones were from people who will laud this game to hang on to a point or to bolster a position they may have...This review is confirming everything I was worried about all along.

I will not be buying SH5 for a while now...SH3 is just fine, thanks


But SH5 sure is purty and all....

That is because you have things like this going on...

"Jim Sterling writes: "We hear about these situations far too much, where a publisher is accused of attempting to broker a guaranteed favorable review from a press outlet. The latest to face such allegations is Ubisoft, having been named and shamed by German magazine Bild Spiele for demanding a high score for Assassin's Creed 2. ""

Source =
www.n4g.com/ps3/News-424948.aspx

Not to mention there are a few that are not shy about blatantly giving favorable reviews when the game is obviously broken when you buy it.

You also have the issue of what a reviewer see's pre release (demo/etc) is usually a optimized version.. IE doesn't reflect the true product at release.

[msxyz]

Back to the OP points...

MY GOD WHAT HAVE THEY DONE WITH THE INTERFACE?!?

Yesterday evening I paid a visit to a friend and discovered he got SH5. He told me how disappointed he was, coming from SH3 and SH4, that the interface had been completely reworked.

I asked him to see it and, my God, he's right.

I haven't played SH3 or SH4 in a year so I don't remeber shortcuts or anything. But I do remeber that all the info I needed was readily available.

Now, it's a REAL mess.

The SH3 interface was very functional and stylish. With SH4 they messed things a bit but it still worked. After less than one hour of SH5, I felt frustrated and exhausted.

Someone says the developers lurk often these forums. Back in the days of SH3 and 4 I remeber a lot of people asking more realism in the simulation (sonar, depth charges, ship inertia and turn ratio) but very few crticis aimed at the interface. While I like the idea of strolling through the sub like a FPS, once the novelty wears out (and with only one boat available), I want to reach every information, every battle station, every command in a matter of 1 click!

I'm glad I didn't buy this. I have doubts that modder can correct this as the interface is probably hard coded into the game itself.

[GFC Christian]

Originally Posted by msxyz

MY GOD WHAT HAVE THEY DONE WITH THE INTERFACE?!?

Its new, thats it ! Give it a try, get used to it or wait for a mod..... honestly it took me 30 minutes to get used to it and now its fine. I'm really amazed how many people comment and/or complain tho they have no copy of SH5 or even played it for a while.

SH5 is not perfect, not free of bugs and for sure there are lot of things UBI has to improve, but it works, looks awesome and obviously UBI is working on it. IMO three good reasons to stay tuned.

"Jammert nicht, kämpft !" (Don't moan, fight !)

P.S.: ......anybody of you played Armed Assault 2 ? You should ! It makes you modest and grateful.