Reappraising my opinion on George Dubya

Hakahura · 02-25-10, 03:23 PM

It's hard when one has to reappraise a former opinion.

Especially when it was a long held firm one.

I for long time held a particularly low opinion of the 43rd President of the United States. The way he won victory in the 2000 campaign and IMHO his disastrous foreign policy, which dragged my country (Great Britain) into 2 unnecessary wars. I breathed a sign of relief, along with many others when Barack Obama was elected.

How wrong I was.

For all the faults I saw in George Dubya, I believe he would have stood by a friend and supposed number one ally. I believe he would have understood the meaning of "Special Relationship". I believe he would remember who stood unequivocally at America's side immediately after September 11th 2001.

Not Barack Obama and his administration.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/to...-hour-of-need/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7040245.ece

Well Thankyou very much. It's not like we are asking for assistance in battle. We are not even asking for the opportunity to buy extra Sidewinder AMMs. Just the verbal backing of a friend.

So are we on our own?
Who knows?

Maybe the current US administration will wake up.
I certainly don't expect much in the way of diplomatic backing from our EU colleagues, let alone anything else.

However as a Nation we have a history of standing alone and fighting against the odds, come what may. So hope is far from lost and I wouldn't want to serve in any Military Force that has the misfortune of facing the UK in battle.

Who would have thought it.

G.W. Bush come back some things can be overlooked if not forgiven.

AVGWarhawk · 02-25-10, 03:41 PM

Hmmmm...could be an explosive thread. Maybe not. I don't know. The US is kind of busy on the other side of the world. Endorse? Ok, must words. Provide physical assistance? Not sure. At any rate, US and UK have been Allies for very long time. I'm not sure this is really a fight the US should get involved in.

GoldenRivet · 02-25-10, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I'm not sure this is really a fight the US should get involved in.

perhaps.

but you can see the man's point

Hakahura · 02-25-10, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Hmmmm...could be an explosive thread. Maybe not. I don't know. The US is kind of busy on the other side of the world. Endorse? Ok, must words. Provide physical assistance? Not sure. At any rate, US and UK have been Allies for very long time. I'm not sure this is really a fight the US should get involved in.

So are we if you hadn't noticed.

Endorsement is all we ask for and considering the history between our 2 country's expect.

Yes it's an explosive subject and I'm quite aware of the multitude of people from around the world that frequent this forum. Which is why I have attempted to restrain the outrage and bile I feel at about Argentina's escalation of relations, the Rio Groups recent summit declaration and the American administration's convenient display of neutrality.

Oberon · 02-25-10, 04:02 PM

Some back up would have been nice, but ah well, we'll know better for next time.

SteamWake · 02-25-10, 04:03 PM

Wait I thought he was out of office and politics

AVGWarhawk · 02-25-10, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

perhaps.

but you can see the man's point

Absolutely! As stated, we are Allies! Seems Obama has tunnel vision and it is focused on Afghanistan. Remember..eye on the ball Obama?

AVGWarhawk · 02-25-10, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakahura

So are we if you hadn't noticed.

Endorsement is all we ask for and considering the history between our 2 country's expect.

Yes it's an explosive subject and I'm quite aware of the multitude of people from around the world that frequent this forum. Which is why I have attempted to restrain the outrage and bile I feel at about Argentina's escalation of relations, the Rio Groups recent summit declaration and the American administration's convenient display of neutrality.

We have a leader who is shall we say, wishy washy! I think that best discribes it. But yes, giving the devil his due Bush would not have blinked an eye. He would endorsed and then dispatched the Nimitz the region for fun.

Oberon · 02-25-10, 04:11 PM

I think Hakahura is contrasting the difference in treatment of the United Kingdom by the administrations of Presidents Bush and Obama.
I've got to admit, there certainly seems to be no love lost between Obama and Brown and it shows in the deterioration in the 'special relationship' which has taken place over the past few months which has lead to this latest situation.
Although one might say that we cannot have it all ways, I recall many in the UK complaining when the UK followed the US into Iraq and Afghanistan, and perhaps after taking eight years of abuse, the United States is doing what many of its inhabitants have wanted it to do for some time. Go isolationist.
Since this latest incident with Argentina is not likely to spill over into war any time soon, and if it does then we will be able to face them one on one (albeit likely with greater casualties on both sides) then I don't see any particular problem in this current state of affairs other than the deep sense of anger that it stirs within those who have always seen the USA as a close friend of the UK.
Besides, to think of it, it's in the United States best interests to back us up politically in the issue of the Falklands because, heaven forbid, if it did come down to a war, well, we'd be out of Afghanistan in a shot and would most likely not bother going back.

Oberon · 02-25-10, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

We have a leader who is shall we say, wishy washy! I think that best discribes it. But yes, giving the devil his due Bush would not have blinked an eye. He would endorsed and then dispatched the Nimitz the region for fun.

I agree, I'm not pro-Bush, never was, but one thing that I did notice about him was that he was loyal to his allies. I always thought his speech outside the G8 in Scotland on 7/7 was more powerful than Blairs, and I'll admit, it made me feel a little proud inside to be part of that 'special friendship'.

Bubblehead1980 · 02-25-10, 04:18 PM

I proudly voted for Bush for my first vote in 2004 because John Kerry wouldve been awful.I am no big fan of Bush though because he set conservatism back and created the enviroment that allowed Obama to get elected.Having said that, I would take GW Bush any day over this pos we have now.Pretty much the most dangerous man to ever hold the office.Bush doesnt have a chip on his shoulder about America and does not want to change us to a full on welfare state that ignores our allies and sucks up to enemies.Anyway, glad to hear you changed you opinion and dont worry obama and his crowd are on the way out next election.

AVGWarhawk · 02-25-10, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

I agree, I'm not pro-Bush, never was, but one thing that I did notice about him was that he was loyal to his allies. I always thought his speech outside the G8 in Scotland on 7/7 was more powerful than Blairs, and I'll admit, it made me feel a little proud inside to be part of that 'special friendship'.

And I see you sport Ronald Reagan in you signature. Bush JR is a knock off of Bush Sr who was a knock off of Reagan. Both being the Greatest Generation who understood what it was to stand together. Obama? Not so much as he traveled the world forming his opinon on how it should go. It sucks. People were warned. Mistake was made. 3 years to go. What can I say?

bookworm_020 · 02-25-10, 04:38 PM

It seems like America has forgotten who it's friends are. The UK has stood beside the US through thick and thin. It's request from the US was for troops or military aid, just to back them up.

This will have flow on effects in the future, the UK may not back the US when has very little support in it's actions. If the falklands does develop, the UK would be in it's perfect right to pull its troops out of Afganistan and not bother to return.

AVGWarhawk · 02-25-10, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

It seems like America has forgotten who it's friends are. The UK has stood beside the US through thick and thin. It's request from the US was for troops or military aid, just to back them up.

This will have flow on effects in the future, the UK may not back the US when has very little support in it's actions. If the falklands does develop, the UK would be in it's perfect right to pull its troops out of Afganistan and not bother to return.

Well, again, the folks here voted Obama. However, the foreign relations guy as to be Joe Biden. He sucks worse than Obama. If fact, did he even ask Biden about this? Probably not. Obama has health care up the wahzoo. Nothing is going to get done until it is passed or it is dumped. He wants to be in the history books for healthcare reform. Nothing more. Three years, three years. Hang in there...we are!

GoldenRivet · 02-25-10, 04:46 PM

rest assured... the American people support you.

we just cant show our support until the next election.

02-25-10, 03:23 PM	#1
Hakahura Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Posts: 785 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Reappraising my opinion on George Dubya It's hard when one has to reappraise a former opinion. Especially when it was a long held firm one. I for long time held a particularly low opinion of the 43rd President of the United States. The way he won victory in the 2000 campaign and IMHO his disastrous foreign policy, which dragged my country (Great Britain) into 2 unnecessary wars. I breathed a sign of relief, along with many others when Barack Obama was elected. How wrong I was. For all the faults I saw in George Dubya, I believe he would have stood by a friend and supposed number one ally. I believe he would have understood the meaning of "Special Relationship". I believe he would remember who stood unequivocally at America's side immediately after September 11th 2001. Not Barack Obama and his administration. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/to...-hour-of-need/ http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7040245.ece Well Thankyou very much. It's not like we are asking for assistance in battle. We are not even asking for the opportunity to buy extra Sidewinder AMMs. Just the verbal backing of a friend. So are we on our own? Who knows? Maybe the current US administration will wake up. I certainly don't expect much in the way of diplomatic backing from our EU colleagues, let alone anything else. However as a Nation we have a history of standing alone and fighting against the odds, come what may. So hope is far from lost and I wouldn't want to serve in any Military Force that has the misfortune of facing the UK in battle. Who would have thought it. G.W. Bush come back some things can be overlooked if not forgiven. __________________ Sir Humphey Appleby, GCB, KBE, MVO and MA. Britain's Greatest Orator, well bar that Churchill fellow.

02-25-10, 03:41 PM	#2
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,274 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Hmmmm...could be an explosive thread. Maybe not. I don't know. The US is kind of busy on the other side of the world. Endorse? Ok, must words. Provide physical assistance? Not sure. At any rate, US and UK have been Allies for very long time. I'm not sure this is really a fight the US should get involved in. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

02-25-10, 04:03 PM	#6
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Wait I thought he was out of office and politics __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

02-25-10, 04:38 PM	#13
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	It seems like America has forgotten who it's friends are. The UK has stood beside the US through thick and thin. It's request from the US was for troops or military aid, just to back them up. This will have flow on effects in the future, the UK may not back the US when has very little support in it's actions. If the falklands does develop, the UK would be in it's perfect right to pull its troops out of Afganistan and not bother to return. __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

02-25-10, 04:46 PM	#15
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	rest assured... the American people support you. we just cant show our support until the next election. __________________

02-25-10, 04:02 PM	#5
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Some back up would have been nice, but ah well, we'll know better for next time.

02-25-10, 04:11 PM	#9
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I think Hakahura is contrasting the difference in treatment of the United Kingdom by the administrations of Presidents Bush and Obama. I've got to admit, there certainly seems to be no love lost between Obama and Brown and it shows in the deterioration in the 'special relationship' which has taken place over the past few months which has lead to this latest situation. Although one might say that we cannot have it all ways, I recall many in the UK complaining when the UK followed the US into Iraq and Afghanistan, and perhaps after taking eight years of abuse, the United States is doing what many of its inhabitants have wanted it to do for some time. Go isolationist. Since this latest incident with Argentina is not likely to spill over into war any time soon, and if it does then we will be able to face them one on one (albeit likely with greater casualties on both sides) then I don't see any particular problem in this current state of affairs other than the deep sense of anger that it stirs within those who have always seen the USA as a close friend of the UK. Besides, to think of it, it's in the United States best interests to back us up politically in the issue of the Falklands because, heaven forbid, if it did come down to a war, well, we'd be out of Afghanistan in a shot and would most likely not bother going back.

02-25-10, 04:18 PM	#11
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,117 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	I proudly voted for Bush for my first vote in 2004 because John Kerry wouldve been awful.I am no big fan of Bush though because he set conservatism back and created the enviroment that allowed Obama to get elected.Having said that, I would take GW Bush any day over this pos we have now.Pretty much the most dangerous man to ever hold the office.Bush doesnt have a chip on his shoulder about America and does not want to change us to a full on welfare state that ignores our allies and sucks up to enemies.Anyway, glad to hear you changed you opinion and dont worry obama and his crowd are on the way out next election.