DW selling techniques a joke ?

[TLAM Strike]

Maybe BF should package DW and T-72 in one pack, like “The Red Storm Rising Battle Pack� or some such.

Just my wackjob idea...

[MarkShot]

My situation with purchasing DW is:

(1) I am primarily interested in subs at the moment. So, as far as I can tell DW does not add much there (except a kilo with real battery considerations) and there are a number of items that have moved DW backwards in terms of the sub game.

(2) One could argue that SCXIIC/SCU is a better sub game than stock DW is even with some fixes from Sonalysts.

(3) There are a wealth of scenarios for SC and SCXIIC/SCU ... most of which I have yet to play. It's going to take me a long time to get through all of them.

(4) I don't find enough time to play the few excellent games I already have. So, it's hard to think of adding another one.

(5) It's not clear what DW's future is (patches and mods). If I wait and it never gets beyond the current stage then it was best not to buy and hope. If the patches improve the game and DWX takes it to a new level, then I can pick it up later. If the publisher wasn't Battlefront, then I could probably get it new in a year for 25% the original price.

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So, at the moment, the only reason I can see to get DW is to explore modern naval warfare beyond PD. However, at this point in time, at PD, I am already in over my head.

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I am not knocking DW or Sonalysts, but simply sharing my own motivations for purchasing or not at the present time. If DW had represented a major advance in sub simulation over SC, then I might have considered purchasing it and skipping investing my time with SC. But that does not seem to be the case.

[MarkShot]

One thing I can say is that I may well buy DW in the future. This is as opposed to SHIII which no matter how good it might be with or without mods; it has Starforce insidiously buried within it. (I would much rather continue to play AOD, SH1, and SH2/PA - then risk the health of my PC or compromise my principles for a game.)

[Mercedes]

The impression I get in regards to further support from SCS towards DW in the form of patchs additional marketing is that the game has decended the list of priorities for the company. Resources get allocated to new contracts or to contracts nearing crunch time. When you realise that to spend anything less than a fortune on extra promotion will be effectivelly flogging a dead horse then you just move to other areas that would benefit you more with comparable effort/expenditure.

I'm not being critical of SCS here, infact I think they are quite good and achieved a good personal connection via posts by company people on the forums.

I myself am a projects manager for an engineering company that also has a fair number of subsideries that fall within my influence. So although engineering and software development and marketing are very different from each other, there are principles in both that are common. If i started persuing a project that turned out to be an underperformer and giving it higher priority than other more viable projects, I would most likely be marched up to the CEO's office and told to explain myself. When millions of dollars are at stake people tend to lose all standards of politeness for some reason.

[Kapitan]

at heart i can be a nice person or a down right arse hole at the moment im in the middle im annoyed that DWX hasnt come out but im also glad that the new patch is already here but im also glad that its all being worked on so all round its more posative than negative on my part

[Overkill]

Maybe BF should package DW and T-72 in one pack, like “The Red Storm Rising Battle Pack� or some such.

Just my wackjob idea...

Actually that sounds like a good idea to me, TLAM. Especially when sales start to slow down for those games.

[Kapitan]

hmm yeah it does

[Skybird]

Let's face it, DW is very much a niche-product, and the already narrow niche it occupies is made even smaller by the fact that SC is still popular and played by not a few. For those players amongst these that hold a primary interest, or a more or less exclusive interest, in subs only (like myself), DW does not add so much that goes beyond SC. I never was interested in Destroyer Command, for example, and my interest in the Perry in DW is existant, but small for that reason. The helo and the Orion doesn't attract me at all. What is left for me is an additional new sub, and a refining of the general submarine simulation elements - i hope. Also, since half a year now we wait for the announced (final?) patch, they mentioned their reasons while it lasts so long, these reasons are understandable, but their reasons is their business, not their potential customer's business. A final condition of the game that needs no more patches still could make me ordering it. But currently, for the reasons I explained, I just can ask: why should I buy now, in advance of a final patch? I am beyond the age where I like to constantly patch a thing that I fully payed for. And what about data base edits, like the weapons data fix by Amizaur et. al. that came out some days ago? It sounded very interesting, but it probably will need to be redone with patch 1.02. But that kind of hobby, constantly dancing with my installation, is something that I am not so much interesed in as well. Falcon was enough

I think they made just some sort of miscalculation when estimating how big the general interest for a multi-platform sim of this complexity would be. some months ago (I vaguely remember that I mentioned it back then), I described the sim to some friends and people, and their initial medium interest immediately dropped when I mentioned the 500+ pages manual and the complexity. These guys usually play sims like Falcon, Flanker, IL2 and Steel Beasts, very much like myself. Complexity and thick manuals also attract flightsim lovers in general, but the interest for subs is significantly less, and fans of this matter are not as often to be met. This community here may not like it, since it is "the core" of sub-simulation-fans, but this community cannot compare in size to the fans of complex flightsims, I think by far it can not. So the bitter truth probably is that the market for a sim like DW wasn't as big as expected from the very beginning, and SC from the beginning was in still too strong rivalry to it, decreasing it's chances even further.

I personally am about to run out of patience, and interest, the wait for the final patching slowly but constantly reaches the time odyssey I remember from SC, and even if this is the kind they usually do their business - it is not the style of working that I >>>as a paying customer<<< can find satisfying - not for that price.

I am not so sure that more adverts and promoting would have changed the general sale numbers so much for the better. People that I ask about it, and told about it, usually had heared of DW. Potential customers do know that the game can be bought, and many also know battlefront.com. It seems they simply have not as much general interest to buy DW, for whatever their reasons are.

In shorter words: maybe Sonalysts went to the wrong party, and also brought the wrong music with them, and now they wonder why they find it difficult to find as many partners for dancing as they expected.

This thread is not meant as rethorical bashing by me, I just explain the situation as sober and fact-oriented as possible. Since I have not invested any money so far, I am at complete peace with Sonalyst. I prefer it this way, compared to the year I was highly busy with SC. When that final patch came out, frustration had already brought down what was left of my interest in SC. So this time I am far better off

[Sea Demon]

Go ahead and crucify me, but I gotta defend Sonalysts at the moment. Geez, this game only came out a few months ago. I have yet to master all 7 playable platforms, and I'm having a blast playing this game. I'm not sure how their decision with Battlefront will affect future add-ons, but I say give it time. Patience, grasshoppers. Remember how long we were clamoring for the stock DW in these forums? It took a while to produce. I'm convinced you guys would enjoy DW alot more if you weren't looking for so many reasons to complain.....Geesh

We just got DW not too long ago and everybody's demanding more.

Flame away.

Sea Demon

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Kapitain

but im also glad that the new patch is already here but im also glad that its all being worked on so all round its more posative than negative on my part

I am confused, did I miss the ringing of the bell? 1.02 is out? Or still developed? Or do you talk of a completely different thing when saying "new patch is already here"?

[Kapitan]

no i mean a new patch ut i was meaning the V1.01 not the 1.02

[MarkShot]

I think an interesting issue is clear from this thread:

To digress for a minute: In a recent issue of PC Mag, one of the articles made the point that the greatest competitor for Windows Vista sales will be Windows XP and other prior versions of Windows; not Linux or MacOS.

I think that the same could be said of DW when one looks at the subsurface warfare aspect. DW is in competition with SC and dare I say SC+SCXIIC/SCU (and the fact that SC has matured and has a large base of missions).

It was probably a tough marketting decision whether to take the next release after SC broader or deeper. Clearly, it was decided to go broader. I guess time will tell if that was the correct path.

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By the way, I remember the long wait for SC patches and SCXIIC/SCU. It didn't bother me much, since I had yet to get very interested and went off to other things. Finally, when I came backs years later, a fantastic game and body of work was available.

These days I am playing quite a few older games and I have to say the whole idea is very attractive. Very little money wasted; the product is fully mature (no frustrations), lots of resources, and you can quickly determine whether you should invest your time/money or not. No need to hang around hoping for everything to come together one day. Also, it puts a damper on the need to always get faster CPUs and GPUs; which can also save lots of money. The only big negative to older games are: the community has already moved on and support is harder to find and if you like to play online you missed the "golden age".

In fact, it has recently dawned on me that some of the "classic" older games if you look past the graphics are truly superb. New often doesn't mean better game experience, but frequently really just equates to impressive graphics.

[Bellman]

Nice idea TLAM - there seems some symmetry between sub and tank sims.
I am sure there are plenty out there who play both.

Mark - the marketing guys at SS (?) will not like this but your right about old games. Right now I prefer SCX to DW
temporarily I hope, but for sub divers this was an ace product with bags of good missions.
The advantage of the old sims like Falcon, Harpoon, Steel Beasts, and MS Flight Sim is that each has evolved
into a polished product with a vibrant and still very active support base.

These products stuck with their initial design and game structure concepts. OK MS FS added
bells and whistles and new toys.

I have DW but will only stop diving SCX when DW is patched and then the jury is still out until DWX.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MarkShot

By the way, I remember the long wait for SC patches and SCXIIC/SCU. It didn't bother me much, since I had yet to get very interested and went off to other things. Finally, when I came backs years later, a fantastic game and body of work was available.

These days I am playing quite a few older games and I have to say the whole idea is very attractive. Very little money wasted; the product is fully mature (no frustrations), lots of resources, and you can quickly determine whether you should invest your time/money or not. No need to hang around hoping for everything to come together one day. Also, it puts a damper on the need to always get faster CPUs and GPUs; which can also save lots of money. The only big negative to older games are: the community has already moved on and support is harder to find and if you like to play online you missed the "golden age".

In fact, it has recently dawned on me that some of the "classic" older games if you look past the graphics are truly superb. New often doesn't mean better game experience, but frequently really just equates to impressive graphics.

All too true! Cannot agree more. Playing some old stuff here, too. also doing that, because sometimes within their genre a better title never cam out.

[JamesT73J]

It's the same old crap when people have got nothing better to do. Change the record.

If you're unhappy with the scenarios available for DW, learn to make your own, and distribute them.

As for DW somehow being less popular than SC. Total bollocks - I was able to get more online matches in a week with DW than I'd managed in six months with Sub Command - I'd assert that the community is considerably stronger, helped somewhat by the fact that DW's online performance is on a different planet to SC's.

Anyone who thinks SC's evolution was a bed of roses obviously wasn't around in late '01 when the community was awaiting a patch - the bitching was unbelievable - and DW hit the market as a far more complete product, thanks to a more inclusive testing program that used people from the community.

DW is a superb product, I haven't had cause to go back to SC/SCXIIC and I don't plan to. If certain elements of the community got off their collective arses and started being more positive, things would improve.

I fear that the issue here is that people have become spoilt.

Cheers


James