The gawd-almighty merged DRM in Silent Hunter V thread

[Ouch!]

Originally Posted by Letum

I don't think it helps to make blanket statements about all DRM.
It can, and has, been done right in the past.

There are DRM systems that do not infringe customers rights to what
they have bought, control over their own PC, privacy and convinience.

Can you name some?

[Nordmann]

The standard, tried and tested, CD key for one. Heck, just take a look at Sins of a Solar Empire, no DRM whatsoever, the catch is that pirate versions cannot receive updates and expansions.

[badkarma]

It's clear that the community is sceptical that this platform will be crack-proof and that is understandable. But I cannot stress strongly enough the effect that piracy has had on the PC market. If you want to scale it back to the very basic - we feel that this effort to combat piracy allows us to continue investing creative resources into PC development.

Can we guarantee that the platform is crack-proof? I guess it's impossible to make that guarantee but I can say that we would not be releasing the system if we didn't believe that it's worth its salt.

Do we know that this kind of thing is bothersome to a certain group of gamers? Absolutely. And we're not happy to be frustrating a group of people who play our games. But we do feel that the services that we can offer with the system offset some of the frustration and, more importantly, the efforts that we put into limiting piracy will ensure that Ubisoft can continue investing in developing true AAA game experiences for PC gamers..

Well that seems pretty reasonable to me. I read this as:
IF this DRM works then the loss of customers with no/bad internet is worthwhile to stop piracy and regain some lost sales.
IF this DRM is cracked and removed within a week (which to be honest will be like every other DRM to this point) then the whole thing has been a massive failure doing nothing but inconveniencing legitimate customers and probably pushing more people to piracy.

This had better be the most amazing hack-proof DRM concieved up to this point in PC gaming, or UBI are going to look amazingly stupid over this.

In fact, this statement has made me decide to do something I've never done before.
I'll be looking to see if a pirated version of SH5 is available. NOTE: I will NOT be downloading or using it, EVER. However, if I don't find one within a month of release, meaning UPlay actually works as anti-piracy and isn't just corperate BS for "no reselling of our product", then I'll be purchasing.

I still think this DRM is draconian to the max, but if it actually stops piracy then I find it hard to argue that it's the wrong way to go for games companies.
However if it doesn't work, it's done nothing but punish legitimate users.. and I'm in no mood for punishment that does nothing but make UBI feel like at least they made an effort, and they can now guarentee no re-selling and lots of marketing opportunities.

Originally Posted by badkarma

I'll be looking to see if a pirated version of SH5 is available. NOTE: I will NOT be downloading or using it, EVER. However, if I don't find one within a month of release, meaning UPlay actually works as anti-piracy and isn't just corperate BS for "no reselling of our product", then I'll be purchasing.

Probably with all this argue pro/against DRM, this game will be cracked very soon after its release, it's a challenge for crackers. And a big one, considering the total volume of talking about the subject.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by badkarma

I'll be looking to see if a pirated version of SH5 is available. NOTE: I will NOT be downloading or using it, EVER. However, if I don't find one within a month of release, meaning UPlay actually works as anti-piracy and isn't just corperate BS for "no reselling of our product", then I'll be purchasing.

It may well be released the usual way, Edit--NS

[ryanglavin]

Starforce has made me get at least 15 new drivers over the years. (as in 4).

I don't want to go through that hell again.

[mookiemookie]

Another funny.

The man represents pirates. The car represents paying customers. The bus represents Ubi's DRM:

[Nordmann]

Damn, that guy sure was lucky, if he'd been any slower...

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by martes86

Well, it does cause damage. Back then I had a Phillips drive, which started to make weird noises some time after installing SH3. I remember my dad telling me that no way he'd install it with SF in it, and he called it a virus. It certainly remembered me of the virus back when they loved to just destroy stuff instead of stealing data or using your pc for auto-spam.

Anecdotal evidence is not proof. My daughter's laptop DVD drive stopped recognizing music CDs. I don't think it was U2's fault.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by badkarma

Well that seems pretty reasonable to me. I read this as:
IF this DRM works then the loss of customers with no/bad internet is worthwhile to stop piracy and regain some lost sales.
IF this DRM is cracked and removed within a week (which to be honest will be like every other DRM to this point) then the whole thing has been a massive failure doing nothing but inconveniencing legitimate customers and probably pushing more people to piracy.

This had better be the most amazing hack-proof DRM concieved up to this point in PC gaming, or UBI are going to look amazingly stupid over this.

I still think this DRM is draconian to the max, but if it actually stops piracy then I find it hard to argue that it's the wrong way to go for games companies.
However if it doesn't work, it's done nothing but punish legitimate users.. and I'm in no mood for punishment that does nothing but make UBI feel like at least they made an effort, and they can now guarentee no re-selling and lots of marketing opportunities.

I agree with you first two points, but


read the rules, you cannot make declarations about pirating games or using cracks on legal games in this forum.



I understand that some people will legally buy the game and then look for a crack to remedy whatever inconvenience the copy protection has, but there is no way for you, me, and everyone to tell who is using cracks on legal games and who is pirating the game. So, keep that to yourself.

Note to all: this thread will be locked if this keeps up.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Another funny.

The man represents pirates. The car represents paying customers. The bus represents Ubi's DRM:

Ok, here's hoping Ubi's new OSP bus is a little faster and a little wider!!

[Heckler]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I agree with you first two points, but read the rules, you cannot make declarations about pirating games in this forum.

Note to all: this thread will be locked if this keeps up.

He never made any declaration that he would pirate the game... he simply said he would look and see if it became available and cracked soon after being released... Is it against the rules to say you will look at something now?

That would be like saying 'I'm going to the library to look at a book on how to get away with murder' (they exist) and you accuse me of being a murderer.

Research and being informed is not a bad thing... those of us who are fully informed on issues are likely to make more reasoned, sensible and rational choices. Being aware that the DRM has been cracked (or not) and that the game is freely available for download (or isn't) is not a declaration of intent to pirate a game and never will be.

[Onkel Neal]

Heckler, I understand your point, and the problem is not with Martes or badkarma's intentions. For all we know they may be telling the exact truth. However, people who download games illegally will not announce they do this (if they do, the are banned), so there is no way to tell the honest people from the dishonest people. Were you here when SH4 came out? Do you remember the people compaining that the game had serious bugs like the crew chanting numbers over and over and they had big bug eyes? Yeah, those were signs that these people were playing pirated copies of the games.* When you see 200,000 downloads on the torrents, you have to know there's a lot of people playing SH games that did not pay for them, like me...and you.



All we ask is discuss the game, the features, the flaws, the missions, etc but don't get too deep into illegal activities here. Ok?




*Nisgeis, we know you were the exception

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

*Nisgeis, we know you were the exception

Yep! Other people say they have legit copies and the no eyes problem - not sure what the big eyes thing is though. I never had any chanting of numbers, but I did get that horrible whooshing sound on loading save games.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, we appreciated the lengths you went to in order to prove your game was legal.