Killed by Early US Destroyer Radar or Game Glitch?

[panthercules]

I've been trying to do some research since I lost my first U-boat last night, to see if I was just one of the first Kaleuns to be fatally surprised by American radar capabilities or if it was probably a game glitch. Does anybody here know for sure when US Navy destroyers were equipped with surface search radars capable of spotting surfaced subs at over 7,000 yards?

I had almost made it into the staging area just south of New York harbor near midnight on the surface in my brand new Type IXC at the beginning of Operation Drumbeat (mid-January 1942), when in a moment of dog-induced inattention I was spotted and attacked by a PT boat. I managed to submerge to periscope depth (not much more water under me at that point) and sneak away back out to sea, shaking off the PT boat before his bigger friends could arrive on the scene.

A couple of hours later, I located what appeared to be a "hole" in the scurrying warships' search patterns, and surfaced (2am on a moonless night) at slow speed 6,800m away from the closest enemy ship (a destroyer) and started to creep away toward deeper water and safety. Next thing I know, the destroyer (who had been steaming on a parallel course in opposite direction to me 6,800 meters away bearing about 165 degrees from my sub) has turned right towards me and is charging in at full speed.

I dove and tried to hit her with torps from my stern tubes, but I missed and she and the friends she brought with her eventually clobbered me as I lay on the ocean floor frantically repairing stuff in only about 25m of water.

Although I haven't been able to find anything really conclusive, all my research so far indicates that it was highly unlikely that American destroyers in January 1942 (particularly an old 4-stacker WWI era ship like the one that spotted me) were already equipped with surface search radar, and even if they were it would almost certainly be an early version that was not capable of detecting a surfaced sub at 6,800 meter range (the early ones were only good for spotting subs out to about 3,500m at best apparently).

I think I probably could have managed to get out if I had stayed submerged, so it kinda irks me that I was spotted at what seemed like it should have been a safe range. Seems like an iffy way to lose my virtual U-bootwaffe's highest scoring ace (over 350,000 tons in 17 1/2 patrols on 90-100% realism, mostly with RUB and similar traffic reduction mods in place, etc.).

I guess I'll just have to assume I was unlucky enough to run across a test bed vessel for the American's latest radar unit who happened to pick that night to take her out for a trial run

[Apocal]

Is it possible they heard you running your disesel engines with their own sound gear?

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by Apocal

Is it possible they heard you running your disesel engines with their own sound gear?

I suppose anything is possible, but it seems really unlikely that they would be able to hear my diesels at very low speed (kleine fahrt voraus) on the surface over the sound of their own high speed engines when I was bearing about 165 degrees from their ship (thus they would be listening back toward their own engines at that angle)

Maybe somebody left the conning tower lights on when we surfaced and the destroyer saw the light spill when we opened the hatch :hmm:

[Duli]

No way that they would heard your diesels running on surface. Especialy at 165° bearing, when their propelers are in a way to their hydrophone.

[SmokinTep]

Sounds fishy to me. I am sometimes amazed at how good some of these destroyers are.

[Gorduz]

How about a landbased radar?

[_Skii_]

Originally Posted by SmokinTep

Sounds fishy to me. I am sometimes amazed at how good some of these destroyers are.

Tell me about it

Like the one that killed 2 crew members with his 1st salvo from over the horizon (not visible yet) , and then sank me on his 1st
depth charge run (RuB)

A little harsh I thought

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by Gorduz

How about a landbased radar?

Maybe so - I thought about that one since I was fairly close to land (should have been out of visual range of land, as I was probably about 8-9km out from shore at the time), but I haven't been able to find any decent info on the likelihood or range capabilities of shore based radars along Long Island in January 1942, and I kinda doubt that the devs would have modeled that, but who knows?

Anyway, as cheesy as this spotting incident seemed to me, I went ahead and started a new career so I could try out a Type IIA this time (started in a Type VIIB last time around). Next time to the East Coast I guess I'll just give those American destroyers an even wider berth.

[Zie Chuckinator]

type II's don't make it to the U.S.

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by Zie Chuckinator

type II's don't make it to the U.S.

LOL - don't be too sure - if that US Destroyer can spot my Type IXC from 6,800m in Jan 1942 then maybe I can take my Type II over there (maybe get a tow from one of the Type IXs heading that way?) and see if they can spot this little toy boat on their uber-radar

Seriously, after spending so much time in my Type VIIB and then that last patrol in the monster TypeIXC, I keep looking around from the bridge of my new Type IIA and wondering where the rest of my boat has gone

[svenks]

Hmm, maybe try to run "Deck Awash". Set your depth to just below 8 meters, then only your conning tower will be up. You will still run on diesels, but your watch crew will be below.
I've done that a few times in plane infested waters, and it does seem to make you harder to spot!

Mind you, this can only be done in very quiet weather!

BRGDS
Sven

[oRGy]

Is this with Real UBoat 1.43 applied? Asfaik RuB makes several changes to the sensor settings.

[nattydread]

You may have been spooted by a PT boat, their low profiles should allow them to see you before you see them. The PT boat could then relay your position to the DD. Problem is, it seems relayed positions are as accurate as radar assisted firing.

I once ran into a convoy in pea-soup fog in early 1940. A freighter came out of the fog and was so close I had to take emergency manuvers to avoid him, Im talking about 100m or less...I just barely slide past him. Well im detected of course being so close. That big freighter was all I coul dsee as it loomed over me, but then I see a flash behind it in the fog. I thought it was the searchlight of a DD that hadnt yet broken out of the fog, but was despersatly trying to see through the fog...instead, it was a DD's main gun flash as its first shot slammed into my conning tower out of the fog.

This was all original install or maybe the 1.1 patch, but I get the sense it hasnt been addressed in any of the patches.

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by oRGy

Is this with Real UBoat 1.43 applied? Asfaik RuB makes several changes to the sensor settings.

Yes - using RUB 1.43

Originally Posted by nattydread

You may have been spooted by a PT boat, their low profiles should allow them to see you before you see them. The PT boat could then relay your position to the DD. Problem is, it seems relayed positions are as accurate as radar assisted firing.

Yeah - could be - I know when my dog distracted me on my way into the harbor approaches that first PT boat that started all my problems was on me before I knew it. I'm pretty sure I'd shaken him, but maybe I overlooked one of his friends when I surfaced - that would be pretty easy to do at 2am on a moonless night I guess.