No Specials for SUBSIM?

[urfisch]

yes, i know. blame me for that...but it really sucks to see, how much is discussed here, how passioned the people are...and all we get is an interview, with tiny little infos between the lines (beside this: thanks a lot neal. you are not the one to be blamed for that!). some screens for the masses...nothing, really nothing special for the subsim community. whats up?

there are still missing detailed explainations of e.g.:

- how the campain really works (none has really understood the function)
- what possibilities the player has, beside the "main story"
- how the game looks in "expert mode"
- what new features we can really expect in the release version
- how they work
- the editors possibilities
- what detailed interaction you have with your crew
- what kind of interaction is there, beside beeing lead through the story line? none?
- the modders possibilities (dan: not makin all crazy by saying: bit more open files and some nice surprises...just to get more people to buy this game)

etc. hell...i am so frustrated again. i do not see these infos coming, before release. SO, theres definately still a BIG LACK of infos. but i do not care about this any longer. we can shout, cry and impend not to buy the game - it is for nothing. but why?

WTF?!...WE ARE NOT THE MAIN TARGET GROUP AND IT DOES NOT COUNT, WHAT WE WANT? YES. DID YOU REALLY EXPECTED SOMETHING ELSE?

damn...i wanted to shout out that for weeks now. sorry.

[SteamWake]

You act as if the subsim community made up the lions share of the consumer market.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

You act as if the subsim community made up the lions share of the consumer market.

Indeed. We are niche within a niche.

[Nickolas]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Indeed. We are niche within a niche.

isn't that what simulators are about?
otherwise we would be playing battlestations midway* or... Call of Duty**.



*not that it's a bad game... i enjoy it, but it's not what i would call a simulation.
**idem * .

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Nickolas

isn't that what simulators are about?
otherwise we would be playing battlestations midway* or... Call of Duty**.



*not that it's a bad game... i enjoy it, but it's not what i would call a simulation.
**idem * .

The Silent Hunter series has never been what I would consider a series of hardcore simulators in the tradition of Falcon, Steel Beasts and the Janes/Sonaylists simulations. Rather, the series has always been more about flash and the overall gaming experience. I would group Silent Hunter with the two games that you had mentioned.

[Nickolas]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

The Silent Hunter series has never been what I would consider a series of hardcore simulators in the tradition of Falcon, Steel Beasts and the Janes/Sonaylists simulations. Rather, the series has always been more about flash and the overall gaming experience. I would group Silent Hunter with the two games that you had mentioned.

i never talked about hardcore sims, but i think this is more than just black or white. There is at least one shade of grey.

hardcore sims .... "simplified" sims (like sh3)... games (like Battlestations...)

i honestly believe that grouping anything other than ultra hardcore sims as "mere games" is an over simplification.

[Adriatico]

Originally Posted by urfisch

yes, i know. blame me for that...but it really sucks to see, how much is discussed here, how passioned the people are...and all we get is an interview, with tiny little infos between the lines

Don't know your background... but economists would say: We are not their marketing target-group.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Nickolas

i never talked about hardcore sims, but i think this is more than just black or white. There is at least one shade of grey.

hardcore sims .... "simplified" sims (like sh3)... games (like Battlestations...)

i honestly believe that grouping anything other than ultra hardcore sims as "mere games" is an over simplification.

When you say 'simulator' in bold in a place like SubSim, one may immediately assume that you are talking about hardcore simulation. However, this is little more than semantics. If you noticed I said that I did not consider the Silent Hunter series to be a hardcore simulation series. I did not call it a 'game'.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Question... how would one go and do a more hardcore subsim, where one man behind a screen has to steer an entire submarine?

SHIII * is about taking command of a sub, and as such is a pretty good simulation of it. Can be improved by adding systems and enabling options, of course. But a game it isnt - games can be played without any knowledge of the subject. Sims need some klnowledge before the player can taked control. Only Hardcore Sims such as certain flight simulations (and payware addons?) need you to read a handbook, and follow procedures for things to work.

and as a kaleun, you do not need to know the knobs and switches and levers to start a diesel engine...

[urfisch]

the thread drifts from its destination...

simulation is simulation. if hardcore or not...it needs to have a good feeling, that "simulates" the theme of the game. so gameplay is not just for noobs, to be easy or hard. it simply answers the question itself. simulation is simulation. and if the simulation is not deep enough, its no simulation.

sh5 might not be that deep, as it needs to be, to be called a simulation. so we have the case here. no one knows, what the gameplay really looks like. nothing is answered. so it seems to be like many are frightened of: no simulation.

no more questions.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by urfisch

the thread drifts from its destination...

simulation is simulation. if hardcore or not...it needs to have a good feeling, that "simulates" the theme of the game. so gameplay is not just for noobs, to be easy or hard. it simply answers the question itself. simulation is simulation. and if the simulation is not deep enough, its no simulation.

This is true, but the main emphasis should be on the events that impact gameplay. For example, people come back with massive tonnage, because it's easy to sink ships. They steam in a straight line, with no zig zag patterns, so it's easy to set up. Real captains had to deal with a perfect setup being ruined by a ship zigging away. Also, when the ships spot you, they just start constant helming, rather than turning away from you. All these things make it easier to sink them.

I don't really want to play a game where I have to pour distilled water in the batteries every four hours, or perform maintenance on the torpedoes. I want the simulated parts to improve the tactical aspect of the game and the difficulties. In SH3 and SH4, depth keeping is perfect, no dunking at all. That makes it easier... all these little things add up to make what was a very difficult task, into a simple point and shoot game. Some may even think if they'd been in WWII, they would have been a U-Boat ace.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

The Silent Hunter series has never been what I would consider a series of hardcore simulators in the tradition of Falcon, Steel Beasts and the Janes/Sonaylists simulations. Rather, the series has always been more about flash and the overall gaming experience. I would group Silent Hunter with the two games that you had mentioned.

I like to call games like the SH series, combat sims. Meaning they simulate combat conditions. Which is pretty good, nothing wrong with those. Whereas Falcon 4 would be both an F-16 and combat simulator.

Originally Posted by urfisch

hell...i am so frustrated again. i do not see these infos coming, before release. SO, theres definately still a BIG LACK of infos. but i do not care about this any longer. we can shout, cry and impend not to buy the game - it is for nothing. but why?

WTF?!...WE ARE NOT THE MAIN TARGET GROUP AND IT DOES NOT COUNT, WHAT WE WANT? YES. DID YOU REALLY EXPECTED SOMETHING ELSE?

damn...i wanted to shout out that for weeks now. sorry.

That's a little too much passion for something as relatively trivial as a video game don't you think?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by urfisch

sh5 might not be that deep, as it needs to be, to be called a simulation. so we have the case here. no one knows, what the gameplay really looks like. nothing is answered. so it seems to be like many are frightened of: no simulation.

On the other hand it may be, as many are hoping, to be a true simulator of what it was like to be the captain, not the whole crew.

[Das Gespenst]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

and as a kaleun, you do not need to know the knobs and switches and levers to start a diesel engine...

I wish....

[Nickolas]

Originally Posted by IanC

That's a little too much passion for something as relatively trivial as a video game don't you think?

one can never put too much passion on having a good time.