Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize - Page 8

Skybird · 10-10-09, 10:10 AM

Bad timing, Neal.

for you: http://www.roozonline.com/english/in...f-victory.html

A position on the detail that falls somewhere inbetween your and my view of it.

And a summary of several aspects, infos and persons that speak for and against the "conspiration" against an octobre surprise - as I said somewhere above, one must admit that it is controversially perceived, but summa summarum imho more speaks for that it existed than what speaks against it.

http://www.de-fact-o.com/fact_read.php?id=31

Aramike · 10-10-09, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Let me help unravel all the tin hat Reagan conspiracies here.

The Iranians were not sure who would win. If they gave up the hostages before the election, and Carter won, they had no bargaining chips and had lost leverage for no reason. If they didn't give up the hostages, and Carter won, then they still had a tool to use. If Reagan won, he had been making it clear that the hostages would be home, or ELSE. So the Iranians did the smart, sensible thing. They waited to see what happened.

Reagan won, they realized he wasn't bluffing, and said "ok here ya go, we are letting them go." Its just plain ole common sense. Something many seem to lose when they talk politics.

Yeah, that's the story. I vaguely remember the October Surprise theories from back in the day, but they just seem to be your typical evil Republican conspiracy theories.

Quote:

That's the way I saw it too. And reading numerous books, most reflected the same attitude. The Iranians were really paranois about the US and CIA, a big part of what led to taking the students hostage. They were seriously worried about Reagan taking office.

Now, that's my kind of president

Indeed.

Btw, Skybird, I wasn't trying to be glib about not finding links to it during a quick search. I was genuinely looking for references to what you were talking about as to educate myself further on the subject.

Oh, and isn't it interesting the way some threads turn here on Subsim?

CaptainHaplo · 10-10-09, 09:32 PM

Skybird - am not trying to nitpick, but I do want to correct something you said. The hostages were NOT released hours after Reagan won the election. Presidential elections are held November 5th in the US. The hostages were released 6 minutes after Reagan was SWORN IN - which always occurs on January 20th. This is roughly 75 days after Reagan won the election.

The timing actually SUPPORTS the idea that there was no negotiations between Iran and any US group over the election. Between the election and being sworn in, Reagan still had no ability to order an action. The moment his oath was done, he could act.

In fact, sources indicate that there was a plan approved of by Reagan to immediately deal with the Iranians and the hostages, that was waiting for the go word. It is also indicated that the "transition team" as it is called, let the Iranians know that hell would break lose if the problem wasn't immediately dealt with.

The Iranians - aka Komeine, feared that US action wouldn't stop with a simple hostage recovery, but rather a restoral of the Shah. Lose something - or lose everything was the choice they faced.

Skybird · 10-11-09, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Skybird - am not trying to nitpick, but I do want to correct something you said. The hostages were NOT released hours after Reagan won the election. Presidential elections are held November 5th in the US. The hostages were released 6 minutes after Reagan was SWORN IN - which always occurs on January 20th. This is roughly 75 days after Reagan won the election.

The timing actually SUPPORTS the idea that there was no negotiations between Iran and any US group over the election. Between the election and being sworn in, Reagan still had no ability to order an action. The moment his oath was done, he could act.

In fact, sources indicate that there was a plan approved of by Reagan to immediately deal with the Iranians and the hostages, that was waiting for the go word. It is also indicated that the "transition team" as it is called, let the Iranians know that hell would break lose if the problem wasn't immediately dealt with.

The Iranians - aka Komeine, feared that US action wouldn't stop with a simple hostage recovery, but rather a restoral of the Shah. Lose something - or lose everything was the choice they faced.

With the timing you are right. However, it was not without american favours in return, the freezed Iranian financial assets of Iran were released one day later.

Regarding Khomenei, I remember it differently, and one of the links above supports what I said on Bani-Sadr and Khomenei.

The story is not to be explained one way or the other, with all certainity, one can only take the many hints and observations and statements from different sources and different people, assess the one against the other, and then see which pan of the scale goes up and which goes down. I think the pan with the "conspiration theory" weighs heavier, and quite many being in better knowledge of the events also say so: more speaks for the theory than speaks against it.

For that practical reason I base on it being true.

CaptainHaplo · 10-11-09, 09:32 AM

I agree on we each have our own opinion after weighing facts.

My view on the asset freeze removal is te whole "reward good behavior, punish bad behavior". It also could be seen as a "reset" like our current president is so fond of talking about.

I am looking into the fighter/bomber thing. Always good to look at it from all sides.

KG_Jag · 10-12-09, 12:56 AM

This "prize" is determined my a handful of left wing Norwegian politicians. So why do we (in the U.S.) pay any attention to it at all?

Just two years ago they gave it to Gore for his book on the weather. At least he actually wrote the book.

Castout · 10-12-09, 01:42 AM

Obama should have never taken the award and give a slap to their faces by declining.

Skybird · 10-12-09, 05:26 AM

then those mocking him now would have attacked him nevertheless, just for different reasons. The prize is a no win-no win-situation from the very beginning. Maybe that is why the first reaction to the reporters telling them about the prize was a complety unenthusiastic, laconic "Wow."

A competent jury in contact with reality would have known that. Obama - probabaly has cursed them for their folly. It makes everything, really everything more difficult for him.

SteamWake · 10-12-09, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KG_Jag

At least he actually wrote the book.

Thats up for debate as well

Even Obama's buddys are finding it hard to believe.

Quote:

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela's socialist leader Hugo Chavez said on Sunday that U.S. President Obama had done nothing beyond wishful thinking to earn the Nobel Peace Prize.

http://www.reuters.com/article/world...59A1MU20091011

Shearwater · 10-12-09, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

The prize is a no win-no win-situation from the very beginning.

Definitely. And I guess if he had turned it down, there would certainly be people who would find it overbearing.

SteamWake · 10-14-09, 11:59 AM

The Taliban weighs in and they aint happy

ISLAMABAD — The Pakistani Taliban has criticized the decision to award Barack Obama the Nobel Peace Prize saying the U.S. president should have received a "villain of peace" award instead

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

Skybird · 10-15-09, 06:11 AM

There are reports now, basing on a Norwegian newspaper, that there has been bitter debate in the committee, with three of the five jurors having been against the prize awareded to Obama. But it was pushed by one member of the socialist party, suported by the fifth guy who also is member of that party. In the end, they stubbornly pushed it through.

Strange math.

Information on internal processes of the Nobel committees are said to be extremely rare. That it became known now may be a hint at the scale of the conflict behind the stage curtain.

Meanwhile a rumour appeared that Obama next year will be given the Nobel prize for literature, because he certainly will write a book one day and it is very likely to become a big success.

If universities only could agree on giving him some honory doctorates, nobel prizes for chemistry, physics, medicine and economics are in reach for Obama, too.

SteamWake · 10-15-09, 09:34 AM

He already wrote a book

Quote:

Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance

http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Fath.../dp/1400082773

Skybird · 10-15-09, 11:46 AM

Okay, then he can be given two Nobel literature prizes. One for the book he already wrote and one for the books to come.

Torvald Von Mansee · 10-16-09, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

The Taliban weighs in and they aint happy

ISLAMABAD — The Pakistani Taliban has criticized the decision to award Barack Obama the Nobel Peace Prize saying the U.S. president should have received a "villain of peace" award instead

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

HEY!!! I'm the "villain of peace"!!!!!

10-10-09, 10:10 AM	#106
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,693 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Bad timing, Neal. for you: http://www.roozonline.com/english/in...f-victory.html A position on the detail that falls somewhere inbetween your and my view of it. And a summary of several aspects, infos and persons that speak for and against the "conspiration" against an octobre surprise - as I said somewhere above, one must admit that it is controversially perceived, but summa summarum imho more speaks for that it existed than what speaks against it. http://www.de-fact-o.com/fact_read.php?id=31 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-10-09, 09:32 PM	#108
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Skybird - am not trying to nitpick, but I do want to correct something you said. The hostages were NOT released hours after Reagan won the election. Presidential elections are held November 5th in the US. The hostages were released 6 minutes after Reagan was SWORN IN - which always occurs on January 20th. This is roughly 75 days after Reagan won the election. The timing actually SUPPORTS the idea that there was no negotiations between Iran and any US group over the election. Between the election and being sworn in, Reagan still had no ability to order an action. The moment his oath was done, he could act. In fact, sources indicate that there was a plan approved of by Reagan to immediately deal with the Iranians and the hostages, that was waiting for the go word. It is also indicated that the "transition team" as it is called, let the Iranians know that hell would break lose if the problem wasn't immediately dealt with. The Iranians - aka Komeine, feared that US action wouldn't stop with a simple hostage recovery, but rather a restoral of the Shah. Lose something - or lose everything was the choice they faced. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

10-11-09, 09:32 AM	#110
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	I agree on we each have our own opinion after weighing facts. My view on the asset freeze removal is te whole "reward good behavior, punish bad behavior". It also could be seen as a "reset" like our current president is so fond of talking about. I am looking into the fighter/bomber thing. Always good to look at it from all sides. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

10-12-09, 01:42 AM	#112
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Obama should have never taken the award and give a slap to their faces by declining. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

10-12-09, 05:26 AM	#113
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,693 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	then those mocking him now would have attacked him nevertheless, just for different reasons. The prize is a no win-no win-situation from the very beginning. Maybe that is why the first reaction to the reporters telling them about the prize was a complety unenthusiastic, laconic "Wow." A competent jury in contact with reality would have known that. Obama - probabaly has cursed them for their folly. It makes everything, really everything more difficult for him. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-12-09, 12:56 AM	#111
KG_Jag Bosun Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Braunfels, TX & Reno, NV Posts: 67 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	This "prize" is determined my a handful of left wing Norwegian politicians. So why do we (in the U.S.) pay any attention to it at all? Just two years ago they gave it to Gore for his book on the weather. At least he actually wrote the book.

10-14-09, 11:59 AM	#116
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The Taliban weighs in and they aint happy ISLAMABAD — The Pakistani Taliban has criticized the decision to award Barack Obama the Nobel Peace Prize saying the U.S. president should have received a "villain of peace" award instead http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

10-15-09, 06:11 AM	#117
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,693 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	There are reports now, basing on a Norwegian newspaper, that there has been bitter debate in the committee, with three of the five jurors having been against the prize awareded to Obama. But it was pushed by one member of the socialist party, suported by the fifth guy who also is member of that party. In the end, they stubbornly pushed it through. Strange math. Information on internal processes of the Nobel committees are said to be extremely rare. That it became known now may be a hint at the scale of the conflict behind the stage curtain. Meanwhile a rumour appeared that Obama next year will be given the Nobel prize for literature, because he certainly will write a book one day and it is very likely to become a big success. If universities only could agree on giving him some honory doctorates, nobel prizes for chemistry, physics, medicine and economics are in reach for Obama, too. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-15-09, 11:46 AM	#119
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,693 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Okay, then he can be given two Nobel literature prizes. One for the book he already wrote and one for the books to come. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.