Is it impossible to save the Bismarck?

Zilch · 09-13-09, 08:50 AM

Since getting GWX, I've been interested to see how it handled the operations against the Bismarck and wanted to see how I could influence the outcome.

After hours of waiting, I finally managed to get U-54 in position to sink HMS Rodney and HMS King George V. Two under King George V's keel were enough to cause flooding to bring her down. Rodney took quite a few more, though, I think I missed the vital spots and had to use four torps to seal the deal.

King George V and Rodney go gown:

Feeling pretty confident after watching two huge battlewagons slither to the bottom, I set to All Stop and listened with the hydrophone. After a few minutes I picked up a new warship. Thinking it could have been another pursuing British battleship, I surfaced and ordered ahead flank on an intercept course.

Finally, I caught sight of the warship. It was the Bismarck!

(Just in case there was any doubt left.

)

The port side was shot to hell, and it was streaming black smoke from a fire on the decks. I tried following a parallel course at equal speed in hopes of chasing down any pursuers with my sole remaining torpedo.

Then, swarms of Swordfish came down from the skies. Normally, I would have pulled the plug and headed down, but I wanted to save Bismarck at all costs. I manned the flak gun and started trying to gun them down, knowing full well how effective they were against Bismarck, historically.

I put a few holes in one, but their strafing runs cost me my flak gunner. One for many, I thought. Up to this point I've never suffered a casualty, but in defense of such a battleship, a cold cost-benefit analysis lead me to stay by the decision. I called up another crewman to man it and kept firing at the biplanes.

Finally they either expended their stores or ran out of fuel, leaving U-54 alone with the Bismarck. The battleship altered course from ESE to WNW, which I mirrored. Finally, it ended up where it was sunk, historically (and I checked a map in one of my books to confirm this location. GWX rocks.) It ended up doing and endless circle to port, with me in the middle of the circle at periscope depth listening for attackers, surfacing to look for aircraft periodically.

Finally, I got a radio message, saying that Bismarck had been lost and that it was a sad day for the German people.

Now, I just lost a man trying to keep this ship afloat. What I'm wondering is, did I not play it right? Did a Swordfish sneak in and torpedo the ship while I was under? Or, is the death of Bismarck scripted to be unpreventable? Since I was at PD I didn't actually see the ship go down. All I got was a radio message, with no more map contact.

KeptinCranky · 09-13-09, 09:01 AM

"Or, is the death of Bismarck scripted to be unpreventable?"

Yes

the endless circle is what happened historically, with the rudder damage, this gave the British battleships the chance they needed to p0und her into scrap.

you having removed the Battleships does not alter the outcome, the Campaign is not that interactive, unfortunately.

It would be awesome if it could've been though, makes sinking the Hood in late 39 even better, stealing Bismarck's credit

Zilch · 09-13-09, 09:07 AM

Thanks...I feel better, knowing that it's unstoppable. And, hey, two battleships for the killboard.

goggles · 09-13-09, 10:50 AM

ive had that mission play out quite different a few times....

once i played it and bismarck managed to sink the kgv and rodney before finally succumbing to her wounds without any assistance from pesky u boats

and on several occasions the bismarck manages to take at least one of the attacking bbs with her

doesnt always play out as per history

Zilch · 09-13-09, 11:11 AM

Still, and I can't say this enough, it is very cool to be able to play a hand in it, even if it is a virtual hand. GWX is the best thing since birth control.

U2222 · 09-17-09, 03:52 AM

Sure, so the death of Bismark is scripted.
But I wonder what would happen if you could find and sink the carriers (if they exist in game) before they launched the swordfish?

papa_smurf · 09-17-09, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Sure, so the death of Bismark is scripted.
But I wonder what would happen if you could find and sink the carriers (if they exist in game) before they launched the swordfish?

It would probably still sink

U2222 · 09-17-09, 04:42 AM

Undoubtedly.
Or just maybe trigger a CTD

flakmonkey · 09-17-09, 05:33 AM

Well funnily i had almost the exact oposite experience, i got a radio message to go and assist the bismarck, i was only 80Km away so i thought id at least go and watch the fireworks as she was sunk. Shortly after i got the message about her sinking with all hands.

Well a little while later i come across the bismarck perfectly undamaged and going round in wide circles. I figure the scripted messages must have been a little ahead of the scripted event in game, so i waited to see if the brits would show up, and waited...and waited, almost 4 days after she was supposed to have sunk she was still going round and round in circles!

I looked in the campaign.scr and yes the brits should have been there, i guess they had something better to do....

Of course just for the sake of historical accuracy i put a couple of torpedos into the Bismarck.

(GWX 3gold btw)

Dread Knot · 09-17-09, 07:02 AM

Yes....the Bismarck was a sad case indeed. Think of all the potential U-Boats that could have been built, wrapped up in that hull of hers.

Zilch · 09-17-09, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flakmonkey

Well funnily i had almost the exact oposite experience, i got a radio message to go and assist the bismarck, i was only 80Km away so i thought id at least go and watch the fireworks as she was sunk. Shortly after i got the message about her sinking with all hands.

Well a little while later i come across the bismarck perfectly undamaged and going round in wide circles. I figure the scripted messages must have been a little ahead of the scripted event in game, so i waited to see if the brits would show up, and waited...and waited, almost 4 days after she was supposed to have sunk she was still going round and round in circles!

I looked in the campaign.scr and yes the brits should have been there, i guess they had something better to do....

Of course just for the sake of historical accuracy i put a couple of torpedos into the Bismarck.

(GWX 3gold btw)

You actually sunk it? Wow. Did a group of nice men in evil-looking uniforms await you, dockside, with a Luger pointed at your head when you got home?

Pacific_Ace · 09-17-09, 09:38 AM

I think Ubi has this sort of thing in mind for SH5, a dynamic campaign, and thus the ability to affect history.

Zilch · 09-18-09, 03:51 PM

That reminds me...did anyone ever play Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe back in the day? It was an old DOS-era flight sim that was mostly about the flight. However, it had a fully-controllable campaign mode that let you set up what flights took place, what they attacked or defended, etc. The outcome of the war depended on your plans and execution. You plan the B-17 raid, P-51 escorts, etc. Then, you can fly the mission and reap the rewards. It was quite advanced for the time and haven't seen anything comparable since.

Does anyone remember this?

U2222 · 09-18-09, 04:28 PM

Be careful Zilch, your dating yourself!!!

What is DOS?

KeptinCranky · 09-18-09, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacific_Ace

I think Ubi has this sort of thing in mind for SH5, a dynamic campaign, and thus the ability to affect history.

from the Subsim meet, having seen the presentation... YES

09-13-09, 08:50 AM	#1
Zilch Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 118 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Is it impossible to save the Bismarck? Since getting GWX, I've been interested to see how it handled the operations against the Bismarck and wanted to see how I could influence the outcome. After hours of waiting, I finally managed to get U-54 in position to sink HMS Rodney and HMS King George V. Two under King George V's keel were enough to cause flooding to bring her down. Rodney took quite a few more, though, I think I missed the vital spots and had to use four torps to seal the deal. King George V and Rodney go gown: Feeling pretty confident after watching two huge battlewagons slither to the bottom, I set to All Stop and listened with the hydrophone. After a few minutes I picked up a new warship. Thinking it could have been another pursuing British battleship, I surfaced and ordered ahead flank on an intercept course. Finally, I caught sight of the warship. It was the Bismarck! (Just in case there was any doubt left. ) The port side was shot to hell, and it was streaming black smoke from a fire on the decks. I tried following a parallel course at equal speed in hopes of chasing down any pursuers with my sole remaining torpedo. Then, swarms of Swordfish came down from the skies. Normally, I would have pulled the plug and headed down, but I wanted to save Bismarck at all costs. I manned the flak gun and started trying to gun them down, knowing full well how effective they were against Bismarck, historically. I put a few holes in one, but their strafing runs cost me my flak gunner. One for many, I thought. Up to this point I've never suffered a casualty, but in defense of such a battleship, a cold cost-benefit analysis lead me to stay by the decision. I called up another crewman to man it and kept firing at the biplanes. Finally they either expended their stores or ran out of fuel, leaving U-54 alone with the Bismarck. The battleship altered course from ESE to WNW, which I mirrored. Finally, it ended up where it was sunk, historically (and I checked a map in one of my books to confirm this location. GWX rocks.) It ended up doing and endless circle to port, with me in the middle of the circle at periscope depth listening for attackers, surfacing to look for aircraft periodically. Finally, I got a radio message, saying that Bismarck had been lost and that it was a sad day for the German people. Now, I just lost a man trying to keep this ship afloat. What I'm wondering is, did I not play it right? Did a Swordfish sneak in and torpedo the ship while I was under? Or, is the death of Bismarck scripted to be unpreventable? Since I was at PD I didn't actually see the ship go down. All I got was a radio message, with no more map contact. __________________ Depth charges pounding your flanges loose? Hedgehogs dislodging your precious bulkheads? Use Beemans Gum! Freshens breath and doubles as an adhesive in a pinch. The gum of choice aboard U-54!

09-13-09, 09:07 AM	#3
Zilch Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 118 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Thanks...I feel better, knowing that it's unstoppable. And, hey, two battleships for the killboard. __________________ Depth charges pounding your flanges loose? Hedgehogs dislodging your precious bulkheads? Use Beemans Gum! Freshens breath and doubles as an adhesive in a pinch. The gum of choice aboard U-54!

09-13-09, 10:50 AM	#4
goggles Loader Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Prince George BC, Canada Posts: 83 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	ive had that mission play out quite different a few times.... once i played it and bismarck managed to sink the kgv and rodney before finally succumbing to her wounds without any assistance from pesky u boats and on several occasions the bismarck manages to take at least one of the attacking bbs with her doesnt always play out as per history __________________ Praise be to the Uboat Gods!

09-13-09, 11:11 AM	#5
Zilch Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 118 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Still, and I can't say this enough, it is very cool to be able to play a hand in it, even if it is a virtual hand. GWX is the best thing since birth control. __________________ Depth charges pounding your flanges loose? Hedgehogs dislodging your precious bulkheads? Use Beemans Gum! Freshens breath and doubles as an adhesive in a pinch. The gum of choice aboard U-54!

09-17-09, 03:52 AM	#6
U2222 Sparky Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: High Peak, UK Posts: 156 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Sure, so the death of Bismark is scripted. But I wonder what would happen if you could find and sink the carriers (if they exist in game) before they launched the swordfish? __________________ A Big Thank You To All The Modders Who Make Sub Simming Such A Deep Experience

09-13-09, 09:01 AM	#2
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	"Or, is the death of Bismarck scripted to be unpreventable?" Yes the endless circle is what happened historically, with the rudder damage, this gave the British battleships the chance they needed to p0und her into scrap. you having removed the Battleships does not alter the outcome, the Campaign is not that interactive, unfortunately. It would be awesome if it could've been though, makes sinking the Hood in late 39 even better, stealing Bismarck's credit

09-17-09, 04:42 AM	#8
U2222 Sparky Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: High Peak, UK Posts: 156 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Undoubtedly. Or just maybe trigger a CTD __________________ A Big Thank You To All The Modders Who Make Sub Simming Such A Deep Experience

09-17-09, 05:33 AM	#9
flakmonkey Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Staffordshire, Uk Posts: 944 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Well funnily i had almost the exact oposite experience, i got a radio message to go and assist the bismarck, i was only 80Km away so i thought id at least go and watch the fireworks as she was sunk. Shortly after i got the message about her sinking with all hands. Well a little while later i come across the bismarck perfectly undamaged and going round in wide circles. I figure the scripted messages must have been a little ahead of the scripted event in game, so i waited to see if the brits would show up, and waited...and waited, almost 4 days after she was supposed to have sunk she was still going round and round in circles! I looked in the campaign.scr and yes the brits should have been there, i guess they had something better to do.... Of course just for the sake of historical accuracy i put a couple of torpedos into the Bismarck. (GWX 3gold btw) __________________

09-17-09, 07:02 AM	#10
Dread Knot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,288 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Yes....the Bismarck was a sad case indeed. Think of all the potential U-Boats that could have been built, wrapped up in that hull of hers.

09-17-09, 09:38 AM	#12
Pacific_Ace Bosun Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 61 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I think Ubi has this sort of thing in mind for SH5, a dynamic campaign, and thus the ability to affect history.

09-18-09, 03:51 PM	#13
Zilch Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 118 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	That reminds me...did anyone ever play Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe back in the day? It was an old DOS-era flight sim that was mostly about the flight. However, it had a fully-controllable campaign mode that let you set up what flights took place, what they attacked or defended, etc. The outcome of the war depended on your plans and execution. You plan the B-17 raid, P-51 escorts, etc. Then, you can fly the mission and reap the rewards. It was quite advanced for the time and haven't seen anything comparable since. Does anyone remember this? __________________ Depth charges pounding your flanges loose? Hedgehogs dislodging your precious bulkheads? Use Beemans Gum! Freshens breath and doubles as an adhesive in a pinch. The gum of choice aboard U-54!

09-18-09, 04:28 PM	#14
U2222 Sparky Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: High Peak, UK Posts: 156 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Be careful Zilch, your dating yourself!!! What is DOS? __________________ A Big Thank You To All The Modders Who Make Sub Simming Such A Deep Experience