Cap & Trade

SteamWake · 06-24-09, 09:04 AM

I posted this in the healthcare thread but assuming some folks have decided to ignore that one I post it here.

This is to important to overlook and while the vast majority of the nation is being wowed by Barrys new TV show this bill is being voted on in two days.

The bill is basically a tax on 'emissions' and promoted by the global warming crowd.

In this economy this is exactly what we need. More tax burdon.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123655590609066021.html

Tchocky · 06-24-09, 09:11 AM

Con - Waxman-Markey doesn't really do an awful lot.

Pro - The symbolic nautre of the bill helps to work against China and India's argument that if the US isn't doing anything about climate change, then they don't have to.

Funny how climate change makes recessionary concerns kind of moot. It will cost money to change the way we live and work to ensure sustainability.

It will cost more money to do nothing.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/roulette-0519.html

SteamWake · 06-24-09, 09:23 AM

China is exempt

SUBMAN1 · 06-24-09, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Con - Waxman-Markey doesn't really do an awful lot.

Pro - The symbolic nautre of the bill helps to work against China and India's argument that if the US isn't doing anything about climate change, then they don't have to.

Funny how climate change makes recessionary concerns kind of moot. It will cost money to change the way we live and work to ensure sustainability.

It will cost more money to do nothing.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/roulette-0519.html

Thats the biggest bunch of BS I have ever seen.

I think you need to reword your last sentence - It will cost absolutely nothing to no do anything. There. Fixed it for you.

-S

UnderseaLcpl · 06-24-09, 12:11 PM

I think I'm gonna go with Subman on this one. It will cost more to do something than to do nothing, and worse, it will be for nothing.

That said, I actually like the idea of an effluent tax. Not cap-in-trade itself, but an effluent tax that is applied on a firm by firm basis. Milton Friedman championed that idea five decades ago. The catch is that the effluent tax should really be the only tax that industry pays. As the author of Subman's article points out, additional taxes just get passed on to workers and consumers, up to a point. Once tax overhead can no longer be passed to consumers without sacrificing marketability or workers without sacrificing competent labor, it attacks profit and then operating funds. Of course by that point any sane company will have packed up shop and moved elsewhere, which is what they have been doing for three decades now, and will continue to do if cap in trade is passed.

AVGWarhawk · 06-24-09, 01:02 PM

Whatever the case, I think American has gotten ramrodded by Congress enough. Now we are getting ramrodded with this.

nikimcbee · 06-24-09, 01:33 PM

You have spotted the second torpedo! Obama has everybody distracted with healthcare, and aren't they voting on this today?

AVGWarhawk · 06-24-09, 01:42 PM

She wants it done before their 4th of July break but I understand she is ramrodding this for a Friday vote.

Smoke and mirrors. Welcome to the new old DC

The change we can believe in. America has been hoodwinked.

GoldenRivet · 06-25-09, 06:45 PM

Obama.... you sir are an idiot.

i have said it before and ill say it again... "America... for sale one piece at a time"

your government has failed you America... what do you intend to do about it?

Answer:

lay there and take it like a plastic f*ck doll

SteamWake · 06-26-09, 08:30 AM

Today is your last chance to call your representative and tell him how you feel about this bill. Either way I dont care just take the time to call.

The good news is that it is only the house voting on this today it will still have to pass in the senate. But if the house denys it they will have to go back to the drawing board.

SteamWake · 06-26-09, 05:10 PM

Quote:

It was a House version of a Senate filibuster – and a way to protest the addition of the 300-page managers’ amendment at 3 a.m. Friday.

Republicans say Democrats are ramming their climate-change legislation through the House without enough time for members to read the bill — let alone to understand it — all in violation of their promises about creating a more transparent legislative process

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24232.html

06-26-09, 05:28 PM

All those companies who are so called sum polluters will be passing the cost onto the consumer. Make no mistake about it.

06-24-09, 09:04 AM	#1
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Cap & Trade I posted this in the healthcare thread but assuming some folks have decided to ignore that one I post it here. This is to important to overlook and while the vast majority of the nation is being wowed by Barrys new TV show this bill is being voted on in two days. The bill is basically a tax on 'emissions' and promoted by the global warming crowd. In this economy this is exactly what we need. More tax burdon. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123655590609066021.html __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

06-24-09, 09:11 AM	#2
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Con - Waxman-Markey doesn't really do an awful lot. Pro - The symbolic nautre of the bill helps to work against China and India's argument that if the US isn't doing anything about climate change, then they don't have to. Funny how climate change makes recessionary concerns kind of moot. It will cost money to change the way we live and work to ensure sustainability. It will cost more money to do nothing. http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/roulette-0519.html __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

06-24-09, 09:23 AM	#3
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	China is exempt __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

06-24-09, 12:11 PM	#5
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think I'm gonna go with Subman on this one. It will cost more to do something than to do nothing, and worse, it will be for nothing. That said, I actually like the idea of an effluent tax. Not cap-in-trade itself, but an effluent tax that is applied on a firm by firm basis. Milton Friedman championed that idea five decades ago. The catch is that the effluent tax should really be the only tax that industry pays. As the author of Subman's article points out, additional taxes just get passed on to workers and consumers, up to a point. Once tax overhead can no longer be passed to consumers without sacrificing marketability or workers without sacrificing competent labor, it attacks profit and then operating funds. Of course by that point any sane company will have packed up shop and moved elsewhere, which is what they have been doing for three decades now, and will continue to do if cap in trade is passed. __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

06-24-09, 01:02 PM	#6
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Whatever the case, I think American has gotten ramrodded by Congress enough. Now we are getting ramrodded with this. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

06-24-09, 01:33 PM	#7
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	You have spotted the second torpedo! Obama has everybody distracted with healthcare, and aren't they voting on this today? __________________

06-24-09, 01:42 PM	#8
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	She wants it done before their 4th of July break but I understand she is ramrodding this for a Friday vote. Smoke and mirrors. Welcome to the new old DC The change we can believe in. America has been hoodwinked. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

06-25-09, 06:45 PM	#9
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Obama.... you sir are an idiot. i have said it before and ill say it again... "America... for sale one piece at a time" your government has failed you America... what do you intend to do about it? Answer: lay there and take it like a plastic f*ck doll __________________

06-26-09, 08:30 AM	#10
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Today is your last chance to call your representative and tell him how you feel about this bill. Either way I dont care just take the time to call. The good news is that it is only the house voting on this today it will still have to pass in the senate. But if the house denys it they will have to go back to the drawing board. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

06-26-09, 05:28 PM	#12
CastleBravo Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	All those companies who are so called sum polluters will be passing the cost onto the consumer. Make no mistake about it.