Obama throws our Military and CIA under the bus in front of a Muslim audience

[SUBMAN1]

He just validated Al Qeida's propaganda:

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=353923

-S

[SteamWake]

Any wonder why this kind of escapade takes place on the weekend?

Oh forgot to add. Everyones a critic !

[Enigma]

You're both morons.

Now for another gin and tonic.....

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

He just validated Al Qeida's propaganda

By admitting we were wrong and did make mistakes?

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

By admitting we were wrong and did make mistakes?

Havent you heard? America never makes mistakes.

[Skybird]

I'm split over the speech, not because he admitted obvious political mistakes of the recent years, but because he glossed over some very substantial cultural differences and made some questionable historical references whose truth could be argued. His quoting from the Quran also was extremely pinpointed, ignoring passages that say very much the opposite of his quotes, or put his quotes into relation and contexts that are expressing the opposite.

He probably accepted to do that in the hope that the intention justifies the means. If that will pay off in the long run instead of boomeranging, remains to be seen. I'm sceptical. I wished he would have made a different speech. I see reason but also plenty of appeasement in it. Meeting Islam from a position of Islam-perceived weakness, never did and never will do any good.

[Frame57]

Yep! They do not respect weakness at all, it will only fuel their agenda IMO. One of the things as a senior NCO you learn to never show weakness to the crew. This bum is CIC and is doing nothing but showing weakness. but i expected nothing less given his socio/political views. It took a Jimmy Carter to give us a Ronald Regan...

Some time ago I read an article which set forth the premise that Judeo-Christian societies were guilt based, and Muslim societies were shame-based. The upshot was that the two societies percieve apologies quite differently. The guilt based look upon self abasement as a renewal from which mistakes are corrected, while shame based look on the same thing as a further slide into the abiss.

Now again this was some time ago when I read the piece, but that is what I took away from it.

Based on that, it makes me wonder why, with his self proclaimed affinity for Islam, Mr. Obama would continue along this path?

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Enigma

You're both morons.

Now for another gin and tonic.....

So much anger :rotfl:

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Frame57

Yep! They do not respect weakness at all, it will only fuel their agenda IMO. One of the things as a senior NCO you learn to never show weakness to the crew. This bum is CIC and is doing nothing but showing weakness. but i expected nothing less given his socio/political views. It took a Jimmy Carter to give us a Ronald Regan...

So who's going to be our new Reagan? It seems like there are no good leaders out there at the present time, just politicians. If you have the word "senator" on your resume, please don't apply.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Some time ago I read an article which set forth the premise that Judeo-Christian societies were guilt based, and Muslim societies were shame-based. The upshot was that the two societies percieve apologies quite differently. The guilt based look upon self abasement as a renewal from which mistakes are corrected, while shame based look on the same thing as a further slide into the abiss.

Now again this was some time ago when I read the piece, but that is what I took away from it.

Put in a nutshell, that is true.

It is a very dangerous misperception of us Westerners to think that gestures and habits we are used to in the West necessarily must cause the same social or cultural reaction in the occident. There are no universal values shared by all people, even when thinking of earthly realisations of basic things like searching for happiness and avoiding pain - some strange people eventually see it right the other way around! Even less there is a shared basis in specific cultural and religious values between the West and Islam. After several futile years of trying to see it individually, I tend to generalise now that everybody who claims that Islam and Christianity share the same foundation in values and share the same morals and goals, simply does not know what he/she is talking about, and can come to his indifferentiated views only by ignoring very massively all the details that separate both ideologies so very fundamentally. These differences already start with the historic figures who are seen as being responsible for having caused both ideologies to exist. Jesus and Muhammad, as one concludes on them by the descriptions in the four Gospels and the claimed original quoting that the Quran is understood to be - hardly can be any more different. that it is said that all three major religions root on one and the same Abraham, means almost nothing, and is rated by me as opportunistic rethorics. Judaism is founded on Abraham. Christinaity reformated Judaism twice, and quite fundamentally, from the revenging psychotic and tyrannic Vulcan God of the Thora to the transcendended, mystic one-reality Jesus metaphorically pointed at, and then again the loving, all-forgiving old grandfather of the Protestants after they left their Calvinistic sado-maso-phase behind a bit. On the other hand: Muhammad, a conqueror, slayer, Godfather, slave trader, tyrant and massmurderer who spelled relgious doom on those not following him, and tried to subjugate and dominate foreign powers and internal critics alike by use of war, violence, blackmailing and intimidation.

Loud mocking laughter from me whenever it is claimed that Jesus and Muhammad taught the same message, and their followers were of the same kind.

Guilt works really well on people who want to change their behavior but the feeling of guilt has to be present. Shame on the other hand works for those who don't have the ability to feel guilt. The Judeo-Christian tradition is one of trusting in what Lincoln called "the better angels of our nature". While Islam, as Skybird stated was founded by and often, especially in its early years, dominated by what today we would call criminals of all stripes.

It is not then suprising that in the US the fastest growing religion among our prison population is Islam. Remember no one in prison is ever guilty, either actually or philisophically.

[Platapus]

Which is weaker, making a mistake and admitting it or making a mistake and not admitting it?

The focus should not be on whether we admit mistakes, the focus should be that we try to not make mistakes in the first place.

Originally Posted by Platapus

Which is weaker, making a mistake and admitting it or making a mistake and not admitting it?

The focus should not be on whether we admit mistakes, the focus should be that we try to not make mistakes in the first place.

Well that would of course mean travelling ahead to the future to see how it all works out.

[Schöneboom]

Well, regardless of how BHO's alleged "self-abasement" is perceived by Muslims, I think they will soon realize he's trying to snow them, just like he did the American people. Ignore the words, watch the actions. That's sound advice for all politicians.

Mach's gut,
Wayne