Help-Torp Depth/Sinking Escorts

XonE:32 · 04-29-09, 05:49 PM

Noob question. Seems like all my questions are such as I've just started playin' SH4 after a loooong break from SH3.

I'm running SH1.5 UBM + RFB 1.52 + RSRD. I don't know if this is an SH4 thing or a mod thing and that's why I post it here as opposed to the RFB or RSRD forum.

Re: Trying to sink a minelayer leading a small convoy NW of Vigan during my 2nd Patrol out of Manilla @ 0140 Dec 24th, 1941.

Issue: According to the Rec Manual the draft of the ship (can't remember name, but will post it once I get back in game) is 9.6 ft or meters (will check). I know it's 9.6 and I assume that it's feet.

I'm still unsure, but I think the rec manual is supposed to be NOT 100% accurate to reflect the lack of intelligence during the period. With that in mind I always set my torp depth above the Rec Manual Draft Depth.

Problem: Even if I put my torp depth at the closest to the surface as it can go it can only go to about 3 on the dial. There's no numbers on the dial between 0-5. So I set the depth to closest to the surface I can and it still goes under the minelayer.

Is this a bug? (I doubt it).
Is it an RFB thing?
Is it because I'm submerged as opposed to shooting from the surface?
Is it even possible to sink these low draft vessels with torps while submerged or on the surface?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Usually I just go for the merchants, but I don't run into many convoys and I just thought this time I'd try and take out the 2 escorts first.

Regards

XonE:32

Edit: My mistake, it's a minesweeper with a draft of 6.1 and it is feet. But the .jpg below shows I can only set the torp depth to about 3ft. Is this intended?

Will-Rommel · 04-29-09, 06:07 PM

Just shoot him with a panzerfaust! Problem solved.

LukeFF · 04-30-09, 02:47 AM

On a more serious note...

Yes, the draft values used in RFB are not necessarily 100% accurate. They reflect the data available to the Allies in the form of the various ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) manuals. In the case of that minesweeper, its reported draft was believed to be 6.1 feet.

Other things to note here:

Yes, that's as shallow as one can set the torpedoes. In reality, you wouldn't want them any more shallow than that, since they would broach the surface at any more shallow depth, in combination with rough seas.
Torpedo depth does not take into account whether the boat is submerged or on the surface. The TDC controls work the same in both conditions.
As I see you're playing in 1941, do note that all Mark 14 torpedoes will run between 10 and 11 feet deeper than the depth set by the TDC until about August 1942. Long story short, this was a result of incorrectly calibrated test instruments and failing to realize that a torpedo with a live warhead was heavier than when it was fitted with a practice warhead. As such, shallow-draft warships like these just aren't worth it for about the first 8 months of the war.

XonE:32 · 04-30-09, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeFF

On a more serious note...

Yes, the draft values used in RFB are not necessarily 100% accurate. They reflect the data available to the Allies in the form of the various ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) manuals. In the case of that minesweeper, its reported draft was believed to be 6.1 feet.

Other things to note here:

Yes, that's as shallow as one can set the torpedoes. In reality, you wouldn't want them any more shallow than that, since they would broach the surface at any more shallow depth, in combination with shallow seas.
Torpedo depth does not take into account whether the boat is submerged or on the surface. The TDC controls work the same in both conditions.
As I see you're playing in 1941, do note that all Mark 14 torpedoes will run between 10 and 11 feet deeper than the depth set by the TDC until about August 1942. Long story short, this was a result of incorrectly calibrated test instruments and failing to realize that a torpedo with a live warhead was heavier than when it was fitted with a practice warhead. As such, shallow-draft warships like these just aren't worth it for about the first 8 months of the war.

Luke you need a cape or something. That's twice in as many days you've swooped in to the rescue with the demystification wand. Thanks for clearing all that shizzle up for me. It IS appreciated. Especially the last 2 bullets.

I do enjoy the fact the Rec manual isn't 100% accurate as it definitely makes for more interesting patrols. Great stuff. Thanks again.

Regards,

XonE:32

LukeFF · 04-30-09, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XonE:32

Luke you need a cape or something. That's twice in as many days you've swooped in to the rescue with the demystification wand. Thanks for clearing all that shizzle up for me. It IS appreciated. Especially the last 2 bullets.

I do enjoy the fact the Rec manual isn't 100% accurate as it definitely makes for more interesting patrols. Great stuff. Thanks again.

No problem.

Many features of RFB are a significant departure from stock SH4, so certain things may be confusing to the player upon first glance. I don't mind at all explaining stuff like this.

gimpy117 · 04-30-09, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will-Rommel

Just shoot him with a panzerfaust! Problem solved.

played a bit too much Red Orchestra?

oh BTW the sounds for the gun in FOTRS are from that game...

LukeFF · 05-01-09, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpy117

played a bit too much Red Orchestra?

oh BTW the sounds for the gun in FOTRS are from that game...

...as are a lot of sounds in RFB. The sound package in RO is one of the best I've ever heard in a WWII FPS.

keltos01 · 05-01-09, 01:22 AM

why don't you set the torpedo to "magnetic impact" ? then if it's too deep, it's ok ?

keltos

LukeFF · 05-01-09, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keltos01

why don't you set the torpedo to "magnetic impact" ? then if it's too deep, it's ok ?

The magnetic detonator is modeled for RFB to be as crappy as it can be, within the limitations of the coding we have (i.e., it has a very narrow detonation range, but we can't set a failure rate like we can for other malfunctions).

XonE:32 · 05-01-09, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeFF

No problem.

Many features of RFB are a significant departure from stock SH4, so certain things may be confusing to the player upon first glance. I don't mind at all explaining stuff like this.

I'm so glad as I doubt this will be the last question I have.

As for the departure from the stock game, it doesn't affect me much as I'm one of the (lucky?) ones who never played or play stock moddable sims. I bought SH4 when it came out but my pc at the time was incapable of handling it so I just put it aside and actually forgot about it untill a few weeks ago (post pc upgrade last summer). I use the term "lucky" in that coming on to the sim this late has given the community all this time to come out with such sweet mods like RFB RSDC and TMO which I haven't used but hear is also good.

Quote:

why don't you set the torpedo to "magnetic impact" ? then if it's too deep, it's ok ?

keltos

Knowing full well that RFB tries for historical accuracy as best they can I knew the "influence" selector would be less than good, but I use it all the time anyway Keltos. Note the .jpg above is set to "contact/influence". But as Luke explained it's still a no go this early in the war for vessels with such a (low/high? don't know the correct nomenclature) draft. It's totally fine as I rarely go for the escorts.

Sticking to the merchies is a throwback commandment from my days with the Wolves at War crew in SH3 (great guys), but on this particular patrol it was the first convoy I'd seen as I usually play from Pearl and I thought I'd just have a go at the Minesweeper. No more of that for several months at least.

LukeFF · 05-03-09, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XonE:32

Knowing full well that RFB tries for historical accuracy as best they can I knew the "influence" selector would be less than good, but I use it all the time anyway Keltos. Note the .jpg above is set to "contact/influence". But as Luke explained it's still a no go this early in the war for vessels with such a (low/high? don't know the correct nomenclature) draft. It's totally fine as I rarely go for the escorts.

DDs do become much more of a tempting target once the bugs in the Mark 14 get worked out. On the one hand, one hit can send any DD to the bottom (and the new DD damage model for RFB is looking great

), but on the other, they are very fast and maneuverable, so there's also a high chance of them avoiding your shots. Makes the accomplishments of captains like Sam Dealy (5 DDs sunk on one patrol!

) all the more impressive.

Wolfling04 · 05-03-09, 03:46 AM

Hence they name Hit Em Harder

Most of his shots we're "down the throat" though

04-29-09, 05:49 PM	#1
XonE:32 Bosun Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Shadowing you until dark Posts: 62 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	Help-Torp Depth/Sinking Escorts Noob question. Seems like all my questions are such as I've just started playin' SH4 after a loooong break from SH3. I'm running SH1.5 UBM + RFB 1.52 + RSRD. I don't know if this is an SH4 thing or a mod thing and that's why I post it here as opposed to the RFB or RSRD forum. Re: Trying to sink a minelayer leading a small convoy NW of Vigan during my 2nd Patrol out of Manilla @ 0140 Dec 24th, 1941. Issue: According to the Rec Manual the draft of the ship (can't remember name, but will post it once I get back in game) is 9.6 ft or meters (will check). I know it's 9.6 and I assume that it's feet. I'm still unsure, but I think the rec manual is supposed to be NOT 100% accurate to reflect the lack of intelligence during the period. With that in mind I always set my torp depth above the Rec Manual Draft Depth. Problem: Even if I put my torp depth at the closest to the surface as it can go it can only go to about 3 on the dial. There's no numbers on the dial between 0-5. So I set the depth to closest to the surface I can and it still goes under the minelayer. Is this a bug? (I doubt it). Is it an RFB thing? Is it because I'm submerged as opposed to shooting from the surface? Is it even possible to sink these low draft vessels with torps while submerged or on the surface? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Usually I just go for the merchants, but I don't run into many convoys and I just thought this time I'd try and take out the 2 escorts first. Regards XonE:32 Edit: My mistake, it's a minesweeper with a draft of 6.1 and it is feet. But the .jpg below shows I can only set the torp depth to about 3ft. Is this intended? __________________ Dogs can now be trained to detect Covid in their owners. Cats can too ...they just won't. Last edited by XonE:32; 04-29-09 at 06:07 PM. Reason: Corrected info + added .jpg

04-29-09, 06:07 PM	#2
Will-Rommel Chief Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 320 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	Just shoot him with a panzerfaust! Problem solved. __________________ -Fighting is a lifestyle-

04-30-09, 02:47 AM	#3
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	On a more serious note... Yes, the draft values used in RFB are not necessarily 100% accurate. They reflect the data available to the Allies in the form of the various ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) manuals. In the case of that minesweeper, its reported draft was believed to be 6.1 feet. Other things to note here: Yes, that's as shallow as one can set the torpedoes. In reality, you wouldn't want them any more shallow than that, since they would broach the surface at any more shallow depth, in combination with rough seas. Torpedo depth does not take into account whether the boat is submerged or on the surface. The TDC controls work the same in both conditions. As I see you're playing in 1941, do note that all Mark 14 torpedoes will run between 10 and 11 feet deeper than the depth set by the TDC until about August 1942. Long story short, this was a result of incorrectly calibrated test instruments and failing to realize that a torpedo with a live warhead was heavier than when it was fitted with a practice warhead. As such, shallow-draft warships like these just aren't worth it for about the first 8 months of the war. __________________ ROW Sound Effects Contributor RFB Team Leader Last edited by LukeFF; 04-30-09 at 04:44 PM.

05-01-09, 01:22 AM	#8
keltos01 Silent Hunter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Milan Italy Posts: 4,999 Downloads: 114 Uploads: 18	why don't you set the torpedo to "magnetic impact" ? then if it's too deep, it's ok ? keltos __________________ "Honorable Builder of Sinking Ships"

05-03-09, 03:46 AM	#12
Wolfling04 Frogman Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Nebraska... Posts: 303 Downloads: 102 Uploads: 0	Hence they name Hit Em Harder Most of his shots we're "down the throat" though __________________ I'm a gas pumpen, tire and brake changin, fix anything, jet fuel drinken, USAF Crew Chief.