Specter joins the Dems

SteamWake · 04-28-09, 11:31 AM

Senator Arlan Spector to change to the Democrat party.

Democrats now have a fillibuster proof majority.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=31639

Max2147 · 04-28-09, 12:26 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8023460.stm

30-year Senator Arlen Specter has left the Republican Party and joined the Democrats.

Platapus · 04-28-09, 12:34 PM

Maybe they have better cookies on that side.

Platapus · 04-28-09, 12:44 PM

Well before getting too excited about whether there will be 60 Democrats or no in the Senate, please remember that it takes 60 votes to invoke cloture in the Senate. Not 60 Democrats. Just 60 votes

Specifically, since 1975 three-fifths of those Senators "duly chosen and sworn"

All Democrats do not vote alike. There can be 60 Democrats in the Senate and they can still fail to invoke cloture if some of the Democrats disagree (Senators have a habit of doing that)

Likewise, if the Democrats do not have 60 members in the Senate, they still may be able to invoke cloture if some of the Republicans or Independents decide to vote in favour of cloture.

The fixation on the number 60 is sophistry as it presumes that all Senators always vote with their party all the time. And this just does not happen.

So the chances of the Democrats defeating a filibuster after Spector becomes a Democrat are pretty close to the chances the Democrats had of defeating a filibuster before Spector became a Democrat.

In the Senate there is no such thing as a "filibuster proof majority"

The best or worst that can be said is that party X is now more likely to be able to invoke cloture then they were before.

SteamWake · 04-28-09, 12:48 PM

All true but it makes it much more likely. As of late both sides of the aisle have been more or less in lockstep with their own agendas.

Honestly Spector is not a great loss since he was a rino anyhow.

His main motive evidently was he dident have a chance of remaining in office as a republican.

SteamWake · 04-28-09, 12:49 PM

Merge please

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151173

Platapus · 04-28-09, 12:49 PM

That can sometimes backfire. Sometimes the citizens don't like their representatives jumping parties like that.

There is a quality to commitment.

Aramike · 04-28-09, 01:06 PM

Specter is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with American politics. A quote from him:

Quote:

"I am unwilling to have my twenty-nine year Senate record judged by the Pennsylvania Republican primary electorate."

He's specifically dodging accountability to his constituents - and saying he's UNWILLING to be judged by his record.

Specter's been a RINO for years, so this isn't really going to impact anything. However, his statements and perception of the purpose of the Senate is a complete outrage.

Platapus · 04-28-09, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

Specter is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with American politics. A quote from him:He's specifically dodging accountability to his constituents - and saying he's UNWILLING to be judged by his record.

Specter's been a RINO for years, so this isn't really going to impact anything. However, his statements and perception of the purpose of the Senate is a complete outrage.

Read what he said. He is actually saying that he is unwilling to be judged by the Penn Republican primary electorate

Republican does not equal everyone

Senators are supposed to represent their entire state, not just their political party.

That is the purpose of the Senate.

SteamWake · 04-28-09, 01:29 PM

Talk about hypocrasy.

Spector was just saying a month or so that he would 'never' change parties that he "Thought it important to have a balance in the senate".

I guess getting re-elected is more important than either representing his people or party allegiance.

Platapus · 04-28-09, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Talk about hypocrasy.

Spector was just saying a month or so that he would 'never' change parties that he "Thought it important to have a balance in the senate".

I guess getting re-elected is more important than either representing his people or party allegiance.

You mean he is a politician who would lie to get reelected???

Oh my, what ever has become of US politics.

Max2147 · 04-28-09, 01:41 PM

Specter is still free to vote against the Dems on a filibuster, just like he was free to vote with them before the switch. So this doesn't really change the balance of power in the Senate.

The bigger worry is that his defection (and the reason for it) shows that there isn't much of a place for moderates in the Republican Party anymore.

Platapus · 04-28-09, 01:42 PM

That is the problem with being a moderate. Sometimes you are hated by both sides.

August · 04-28-09, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Read what he said. He is actually saying that he is unwilling to be judged by the Penn Republican primary electorate

Republican does not equal everyone

Senators are supposed to represent their entire state, not just their political party.

That is the purpose of the Senate.

But apparently he IS willing to be judged by the Penn Democrat party electorate?

I see this as a last ditch effort to save his career. He's not Dem enough for the Democrats.

Max2147 · 04-28-09, 02:32 PM

Sheesh, I looked for a thread on this and couldn't find one. What does this place have against clear thread titles?

04-28-09, 11:31 AM	#1
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	It's a lock ! Senator Arlan Spector to change to the Democrat party. Democrats now have a fillibuster proof majority. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=31639 __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

04-28-09, 12:26 PM	#2
Max2147 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 714 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Specter joins the Dems http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8023460.stm 30-year Senator Arlen Specter has left the Republican Party and joined the Democrats.

04-28-09, 12:34 PM	#3
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Maybe they have better cookies on that side. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-28-09, 12:44 PM	#4
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Well before getting too excited about whether there will be 60 Democrats or no in the Senate, please remember that it takes 60 votes to invoke cloture in the Senate. Not 60 Democrats. Just 60 votes Specifically, since 1975 three-fifths of those Senators "duly chosen and sworn" All Democrats do not vote alike. There can be 60 Democrats in the Senate and they can still fail to invoke cloture if some of the Democrats disagree (Senators have a habit of doing that) Likewise, if the Democrats do not have 60 members in the Senate, they still may be able to invoke cloture if some of the Republicans or Independents decide to vote in favour of cloture. The fixation on the number 60 is sophistry as it presumes that all Senators always vote with their party all the time. And this just does not happen. So the chances of the Democrats defeating a filibuster after Spector becomes a Democrat are pretty close to the chances the Democrats had of defeating a filibuster before Spector became a Democrat. In the Senate there is no such thing as a "filibuster proof majority" The best or worst that can be said is that party X is now more likely to be able to invoke cloture then they were before. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-28-09, 12:48 PM	#5
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	All true but it makes it much more likely. As of late both sides of the aisle have been more or less in lockstep with their own agendas. Honestly Spector is not a great loss since he was a rino anyhow. His main motive evidently was he dident have a chance of remaining in office as a republican. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

04-28-09, 12:49 PM	#6
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Merge please http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151173 __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

04-28-09, 01:29 PM	#10
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Talk about hypocrasy. Spector was just saying a month or so that he would 'never' change parties that he "Thought it important to have a balance in the senate". I guess getting re-elected is more important than either representing his people or party allegiance. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

04-28-09, 01:41 PM	#12
Max2147 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 714 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Specter is still free to vote against the Dems on a filibuster, just like he was free to vote with them before the switch. So this doesn't really change the balance of power in the Senate. The bigger worry is that his defection (and the reason for it) shows that there isn't much of a place for moderates in the Republican Party anymore.

04-28-09, 01:42 PM	#13
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	That is the problem with being a moderate. Sometimes you are hated by both sides. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-28-09, 02:32 PM	#15
Max2147 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 714 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Sheesh, I looked for a thread on this and couldn't find one. What does this place have against clear thread titles?