Supplement to SH Survey: What should Ubi do to make SH5 the best?

[GoldenRivet]

Ill try to keep it short and simple.

and this is just my opinion so here is a grain of salt - gratis

Why i think Sh3 is technically superior to SH4 - in stock condition of course, is that SH3 had more out of the box stability.

i could tell that ubi wanted to do a lot of neat things with SH4 because it has so much potential but - in the end that potential was left unrealized until modded.

while i appreciate the attempt by ubi to attract new gamers to the subsim genre - they went about it by "hollywooding" the game into oblivion.

what i mean is they added all this eye candy, souped up the graphics, made it look good... but in the end i think most hard core sub simmers want substance. (they would rather have an intelligent cutie vs. a stupid mega-beauty)

to make SH5 they should avoid this mistake in the future.

personally I would love to see the entire sub interior modeled.

some rigs cant handle that so...so make an option

perhaps check boxes?

[] pretty grahics / plain jane command room
[] ok graphics / but fully modeled interior
[] pretty graphics with fully modeled interior (fast machines only)
[] piss for graphics with fully modeled interior etc

the range of experience of the subsimmers is vast... so the game has to be highly scalable in realism and difficulty.

[Peto]

Convoy Formations: Convoys (especially Atlantic/Allied). Default settings of 1000 yards between columns and ~500 yards between ships in columns, typically wider that they were deep. A little "scattering" would be a nice touch too. Stragglers would be Great! Bad weather could also scatter ships over a wide area and force the escorts to play a game of round-up when the weather abated.

Historical Zig-Zag patterns with potential speed changes on legs of the pattern.

Escorts Searches: Escorts searching for a submarine should be able to do Line-Abreast, Ladder and Box patterns. Historical Escort Groups should be more effective at this than Independants.

Ability of escorts to hear depth changes with passive sonar (hull popping, blowing & Flooding tanks, trim pumps etc).

Mission Editor AI options: The option of giving an escort crew novice lookouts, competent gunnery crews and an elite sonar gang etc. The ability to choose Poor, Novice, Competent, Veteran, Elite, Random, Random Good, Random Average and Random Poor as crew options. These settings can apply to Depertments individually--Visual, Gunnery, Radar, Sonar, Damage Control.

Tweak AI Crew settings so a competent escort crew can be dangerous...

Randomization of Equipment Updates. It would be a nice touch if escorts did not automatically get their electronics/weapons updated at the same time.

Visual sighting parameters could be really opened up so it is possible to slip by an escort at 400 yards (or less)...

Escort DC Expenditure: Escorts should not "always" drop all their dc's on a suspected sub location. They should also be able to make educated guesses where to make blind drops by estimating where a sub "could" be since it was last contacted.

Convoy Effects of Submarine Location: A submarine inside a convoy should be very difficult to locate whether it's surfaced or submerged. The merchants were camoflage to a submarine. Also, Cargo ship crews were natoriously blind--they were intent on station keeping more than looking for subs. When they did see one, about all they could do was attempt a ram. MERCHANTS IN CONVOY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PINPOINT A SURFACED SUBMARINE TO AN ESCORT!!! THE ESCORT SHOULD HAVE TO LOCATE IT BASED ON ITS OWN MERITS AND LOCATION!

Depth Charges: Should have historical sink rates. Ash Can types should also have a "tumble" factor as they didn't sink straight down but tended to wobble in deflection somewhat. This was an issue until Tear-Drop dc's were introduced. Depth settings should be "best-guesses" by the escorts. Dropping patterns with different depth settings should be a possibility. Depth Charge racks should have a few duds in the mix.

Depth Charges should also be dropped in patterns. After the 1st hits the water, the soundman should remove his headphones if he wants to be able to hear tomorrow. Only one "Depth charges in the water!" report please...

Thermal layers/Ocean Dynamic Environment: Sonar conditions should be variable. Thermal layers should exist at varying depths, be of various strengths, have boundaries (typically large areas though) and sometimes not exist at all. Sonar conditions can also be somewhat varied--perfect surface conditions don't always equate to perfect sonar performance. Flat calm water is currently the best sonar condition for escorts. In the real world, this is not true. With no surface chop or turbulence, eddies created by ship screws and depth charges take longer to dissipate and create a difficult sonar environment. Rain also greatly reduces the effectiveness of passive sonar systems--both surfaced and submerged. The best sonar conditions are typically a somewhat choppy sea state. Consider the ocean to be like the sky where clouds are the layers and murky visibility equates to murky sonar performance.

Historical currents through straits (Mindoro, Gibralter, etc) would be a nice touch.

Type 147 (Sword) Sonar: Should be a secondary active sonar system used in conjuntion another active system. It should be short range (~1200 meters max) and have look-down capabilities. Modelling it as a long range system makes it far too powerful. This would be especially important for multiplayer possibities...

Active Sonar with an A-Scope. The ability for adding this to moddable escorts (in the hope of multiplayer escort vs submarine).

Historical and "intelligent" aircraft. This includes the limitations of units not capable of night patrolling.

I may add some things about subs eventually!

[JREX53]

1. A better Damage model for both ships and submarines. Example: on fleet boats letting the engines have individual damage vs taking out 2 engines at a time.
2. Having better control of engines - separate controls for each engine to allow navigation even if you lose your rudder so that you can get home using engine thrust to steer the boat.
3. Better ships physics models - acceleration and turning abilities to be more realistic for submarines and ships.

[bobchase]

A few of things that bug me in SH3 and that have not been listed already are:

Hydrophone usage: I can hear around islands and/or through piers to get a sound bearing on another ship. If there is a ship southbound on the eastern channel and I am in the western channel, then I can't possibly know that they are there until the two channels meet south of the island. Similarly, on harbors that are fairly enclosed, I should not know that there are any ships in there unless I either enter the harbor or pop up the scope and see their upper silhouette. Ships in harbor are generally shut down. If I was lined up through the harbor entrance and the ship was bring the boilers on-line prior to getting underway, yes, I should hear them. However, even if the boilers are up, I shouldn't hear them if there is a solid pier in the way.

Hydrophones pt2: If I pop my scope up when I am trailing a lone ship or a convoy, and I identify one or more of the ships, then my sonar man should be able to tell me the course, speed, and bearing of any ship that I have identified until we break contact. I don't expect a hydrophone range but I would expect a ship's icon to be on my chart (F5 or F6 in SH3) until I loose contact. If I pop the scope up again and see the ship again then, yes, I would expect the ship to 'jump' closer in or further out along the bearing line because I have re-confirmed range to target. On the other hand, if fog has moved in and I can't see the ship at all, then after some amount time, the ship's icon should fade out or simply say 'unknown'.

Channels: There should be a dredged channel up to any harbor that can handle the larger ships and/or tankers. If I let my boat move out of the channel, I should pay for it by hull damage like loosing the starboard fwd planes or starboard screw, etc.

Smoke: Some merchants did make a little smoke, especially in the early part of the war when the tramp steamers with old coal fired boilers were pressed into convoy duty. However, USN escorts and their British counterparts did not make smoke. Well, they did if they were blowing tubes but that is only for a couple of minutes. And, occasionally, during an acceleration run, the BT's would get behind and there could be some smoke. Merchants were careful of making smoke too. Not as competent but certainly careful. If there was as much smoke as there is in SH3, convoys would be visible for 40 or 50 miles, long before they were sticks up and hull down just because of the smoke. However, intermittent smoke could be used for some of the 'immersion' that some of the skippers crave when a lookout calls away "Smoke! Bearing 270 relative! No sticks visible!"

Bearings: Lookouts should be able to call out relative bearings to within 20 degrees or so. They should not be telling the bridge officer the bearing to the exact degree. Similarly, the bridge officer's binoculars should only give bearings relative to ships course (and not true bearings) and only to about 20 degrees also. So you can visualize this, it would be the equivalent of calling out an inner-inner-cardinal bearing like NNE or ENE, bearings that are 22.5 degrees apart from each other.

Thermal Layers: Again, I'm not a WW2 historian, so I can't say if the Germans even know about thermal layers, let alone used them. However, they didn't just appear in the 70's, so they should be there as a variable anyway when a sub decides to go deep in its evasion tactics. If the layer is there and they get under it, then the enemy sonar's ability should be at least diminished, if not useless in finding the boat. If the German did know about them, then someone should say "It looks like we are going under a layer Herr Kapitan". If they didn't know, then just put it in as a randomization factor that uses the subs depth as a trigger and affects both enemy hydrophones and sonar.

And, finally, an opinion on another opinion:
Some folks have mentioned gunnery and how the game has an equivalent of a gyro-stabilized optics. Obviously, they did have them in WW2 but they did have something that the game could not have - a humanoidal lifeform sitting on its butt in a seat that moves exactly with the boat's movement. Some of you would be very surprised how much this can compensate for pitch and roll movements. I don't know enough WW2 sub history to make a flat statement here but if the guy in that seat is the pointer (as opposed to the trainer), then there is some gun stabilization going on. (If he was the trainer then, no, the guys are right because a trainer just moves the gun left or right.) I do suspect that the guy with the eye to the scope was a pointer, so when his butt started to roll back, he would crank (point) the gun down to stay on target and as he felt himself move forward,then he's crank like hell to bring it up to keep the gun on target. No, this would not be the uber-stable optics that are in SH3 but there would be an extended 'hang time' as the boat 'dwelled' at the top of a long Atlantic swell. It seems that Ubi tried to simulate this by having the gun lift up or drop suddenly, causing a shot to go wild, if the roll happened too fast but did not apply it to the optics as well. With a little simulation work, I think they could split the difference and have both the optics and the gun barrel always track each other while having them both move off target when the boat rolls fast, yet allow an on-target opportunity at the top of the swell or during a slow roll.

Thanks for listening

Bob

[RoaldLarsen]

A MODEST WISH LIST FOR A FUTURE SILENT HUNTER

1) Wolfpacks

The rudeltaktik was a dominant characteristic of the German approach to submarine warfare for much of the war. A variation was also used by the USN later in the war. A good simulation isn't limited to modeling the hardware, it also simulates the tactics which employed the hardware and the communications which supported the tactics. For a u-boat simulation game this means more than submersible, torpedo-firing AI u-boats. It means impacts on mission design, campaign design, communications and victory conditions (renown awarded). For instance, if a player is the first to detect a convoy, he should be rewarded for reporting and shadowing the convoy and punished for attacking before the pack gathers. It means that going where you are told is more important than in SH3 (and definitely more important than in GWX which discounts it). It means being given an arrival time as well as a patrol location - this arrival time should be based on the u-boat's current position and status, and the state of air cover and surface patrols in the expected area of travel, but also on current intelligence. It means BdU sending new patrol orders multiple times when the boat is at sea. It means boats reporting position and status on a regular basis. Milkcows and supply boats are essential, but these should provide fewer torpedo reloads than in current mods.


2) U-boats

2a) GUI
The user interface should be easy to use (no tiny dials). The interface should model the actual tools and methods used on u-boats. The magnification and field of view of optical devices should give the player the same view as a Kaleun had. The tools used to make observations and computations should be as close as possible to the ones actually used. Continue to offer a range of options regarding which functions can be automated by assigning them to crew members.

2b) Engines and Motors
Engines and motors should be individually controllable. Provide the ability to set different revolutions forward and in reverse on each shaft. Allow running of electric motors on the surface. Model engine wear and failure from prolonged use at high speed. Model engine
malfunctions and repairs.

2c) Snorkel
Put realistic limits on snorkel use (max speed and max sea state) and model negative effects of snorkel use on crew fatigue.

2d) Torpedo Reloads
Model effects of sea state on reloading internally, and especially limits on reloading externally stored torpedos. Model what happens if interrupted when performing an external reload. Many boats went to sea without external reloads later in the war. Orignal loadouts should be arranged to support salvoes of like types (eg. Type I in tubes I and 4, type II in tubes 2 and 3, NOT type I in tubes 1 and 2, type II in tubes 3 and 4).

2e) Ammunition
Give the player more control over the mix and quantity of ammunition carried. Include the option of HE, SAP, SS and AA for the deck gun, as appropriate for the date. Provide some sort of trade-off for changing the total amount of ammo carried.

2f) Crash Dive Time
The time to crash dive should be affected not only by crew skill and fatigue, but also by the number of crew working on deck (for instance performing repairs or reloads.) Consider also the possiblity of crew on deck for routine maintenance, recreation or smoking.

2g) Trim Control
Consider making available manual trim control. This could optionally be assigned to the LI, but may need manual intervention by the player in case of damage/flooding/etc.

2h) Malfunctions, Sabotage and Repairs.
Model malfunctons and sabotage. Model more realistic repair times and more realistic damage effects.


3) Surface vessels

3a) Organization and deployment
Model escort makeup and task force makeup on historical escort groups and support groups. The proportion of escorts by nationality in the North Atlantic should be adjusted to reflect historical allocations. This means more RCN and less USN than in SH3, and at imes more RCN near Gibralter and in the Caribbean. Model the hand-off from one escort group to another at transition points such as the WOMP (this will result in differences of skill and makeup of escorts in different parts of the ocean). Tend to assign RCN escorts to slow convoys, RN to fast convoys. Model USCG cutters. Model minesweepers used in a coastal ASW role. Consider adding convoy rescue ships, with appropriate behaviour modelling. Reduce the number of merchants travelling independently. Drastically reduce the number of two ship unescorted groups. If these reductions are made, consider making spawning probability a globally accessible parameter for the action junkies. Increase the variety of merchants in the base game. Make the dstribution of ships by size similar to what occurred historically - I believe this means a higher portion of smaller ships.

3b) Behaviour
Adjust spacing in convoys to more historically accurate distances (row spacing different from column spacing). Escort positioning (e.g. different position day vs. night), search and attack patterns should be modeled on historical patterns. Model tactical control of the ships in an escort or support group by their senior officer. Consider having single escorts detached to stand by a damaged or straggling ship or to rescue survivors. Hunter killer groups should continue to search after losing contact much longer than convoy escorts. Search time should be an inverse function of number of suspected u-boats in the area. Allow individual escorts to use differing numbers of depth charges in different attacks. Make hydrodynamic behaviour of ships more realistic (less toy-like bobbing, slower acceleration). Make a more realistic damage model, that takes into account flooding, structual failure, fire, secondary explosions of cargo and ammunition, and system loss related to area of damage. Consider having some form of damage control. Provide for crews to abandon ships that are not yet sinking. Provide a way for u-boats to stop unescorted unarmed ships for inspection. Model stragglers and ships (including escorts) returning to port due to damage or malfunction. Model a relatively more frequent use of ahead-thrown weapons by USN escorts late in the war because of superior acoustic detection methods.

3c) Equipment
Reduce depth charge loadouts to historical levels (no more 200 to 240 DC loadouts). Model the inferior RCN RADAR sets mid-war. Model RN FOXER, USN FXR, and the superior RCN CAT, and later USN Fanfare acoustic countermeasures. Not all escorts should have the most recently available equipment. Model equipment failures - especially sensors - on escorts. Reduce the number of guns on most merchants - very few had the large numbers routinely seen in '44 and '45 in SH3. Merchants in convoys should be much less likely to be armed than those operating independently. Adjust escort crew skill level according to historical results - in SH3 I think RCN are too good early in the war, and USN too good late in the war. Surface ship gunnery should be more affected by sea state than it is in SH3, especially for less stable ships.


4) Aircraft

ASW aircraft did not generally travel in packs - aircraft should almost always arrive individually. A much lower proportion of aircraft sighting by u-boats resulted in an attack by the aircraft than happens in SH3. Conversely a higher percentage of actual attacks by aircraft was successful in sinking or damaging the u-boat than occurs in SH3. Aircraft should be much harder to shoot down. Model the use of anti-submarine accoustic torpedeos by aircraft later in the war. Aircraft would sometimes be used to patrol around or ahead of a convoy. Aircraft would sometimes shadow a surfaced u-boat out of flak range. Aircraft would sometimes employ dye markers to mark the spot where a u-boat submerged for itself, or another aircraft, or a nearby surface ship.


5) Sensors

Sensors should be tuned so that what worked in real life should be the most successful approach in the game. That means slow surfaced attacks at night should be less detectable than submerged attacks until radar is widely available. German optics should be better than allied. Aircraft should be detected sooner. Instances of surface ships visually spotting u-boats before the u-boat sees the surface ship in restricted visibility conditions should be rare. Only ships with masthead lookouts should have a better chance of seeing a u-boat first in good visibility. At close range in conditions of restricted visibility and low wind, diesel engines of surfaced u-boat should be detectable by ear by surface ships, and surface ships should be heard (and smelt) by u-boat crews. Aircraft should be detectable by sound. It seems that too high a portion of contact detection by u-boats in SH3 is by hydrophone rather than eyeball, when compared to real life. Model detection of surface ships and u-boats by radio direction finding, both Huff-Duff and the U-boat's RDF. Consider the effect of Ultra intercepts: a large volume of of radio traffic concerning or near a convoy increases the chance it will change course; boats near milkcows are more susceptible to attack. Ability to request range/bearing to closest merchant, second closest ship, etc. Allow for errors and imprecision on the part of crew members calling off ranges, making identifications, etc. Terrain should block sensors. Exploding depth charges shoulld temporarily disable hydorphones, ASDIC and sonar.


6) Weather and Environmental Effects

The weather model needs a major upgrade. Possibly consider tracking weather systems, which are spawned as a function of date. As well as large scale weather, model local squalls. Increase the maximum wind speed and sea state. Rather than have a low absolute cutoff point for use of guns, gradually reduce effectiveness, and increase risks like losing crew overboard. Watch crew should also be vulnerable in extreme weather. Storms should scatter convoys and reduce the speed of craft on the surface, and cause them to deliberately alter course to avoid the storm, as well as being blown off course. Storms should cause malfunctions to ships' systems as well as, or instead of, points damage. Storms should affect surface ships' crew's effectiveness, proportional to the relative instabilty of the ship. The spawning probablility of coastal craft should be drasticaly reduced by bad weather. The negative effects of weather should be greatly reduced in port. Model the effects of icing on surfaced vessels' weapons, sensors and seaworthyness. Model the effects of extreme heat and cold on crew fatigue and effectiveness. Increase the incidence of fog in low or no wind, reduce it with high winds. Add other visibility penalties for heavy rain, blowing snow, or cold spray. Model thermal layers, changes in salinity, and currents.


7) Eye Candy and Effects

Add lifeboats, debris, and visual evidence of damage. Support skinning with a built-in tool. Add free movement between all compartments, and on deck, with crew in place. Add flags and pennants. Support uniform modification.


8) Career and Personnel

8a) Functionalty
Add career and crew management functions similar to those in SH3 Commander: realistic career length, career start dates, crew transfers, greater control over crew awards, differing levels of starting crew skill sets at differing periods of the war. Consider adding factors that would tend to reduce the number of crew actually on boad to what was typcial, rather than always allowing the maximum without penalty. Provide an opportunity to obtain Petty Officers with a skill qualification.

8b) Crew training
Consider adding a crew training system that builds crew competencies both in the period between commissioning and being assigned to a combat flotilla, and also while at sea on a war patrol, or while docked between patrols.

8c) Crew Morale
Consider adding a crew morale system. Morale could be affected by recent successes (or length of time since last success), damage taken, amount of leave, length of patrol, commander and officers' skill and repuation, awards and promotions, recreation, etc. Some of the things that positively affect morale may negatvely affect training, or operational effectiveness, and vice-versa. The level of moral could affect efficiency.


9) Maps and Navigation

The world is an oblate spheroid, not a cylinder - the game should model this fact. The scale of North Atlantic operations is severely distorted in SH3. Provide a proper scale for conversion between degrees and kilometres, not the 1:120 approximation in SH3. Provide an option for celestial navigation, triangulation of landmarks and dead reckoning rather than always-accurate plotting of the boat's position. Add more numerous and more accurate populated ports.


10) Optional Subsystems




SH3 allows the player to choose between abstraction and immersion in a number of areas of play. Many of these choices are exercised by selecting certain "realism" settings. In other games they might be called "difficulty levels". The more realism selected, the greater the reward of renown. This capability of selecting what to automate and what to have the player do should be retained and expanded, though perhaps some choices should not affect the realism setting and hence the amount of renown awarded. Besides those already in SH3, the following suggested features should be ones that a player can opt to use or have the game handle automatically:

• Training system
• Morale system
• Advanced navigation
• Watch changes and crew fatigue
• Driving the boat to and from patrol area (option for a teleport system for the impatient, perhaps with a
  breakout for calculated random encounters)

11) Renown, Rewards, Promotions and Upgrades

SH3 uses a system of awarding renown points to reward good play. Renown points can be used to buy upgrades or weapons for a boat, obtain more skilled crew or qualify the player for promotions. Renown points are awarded for destroying enemy ships and planes and for reaching and staying at designated patrol areas. Renown points are deducted for sinking friendly or neutral ships. Consider adding renown awards for completing a career, locating and reporting convoys, for destroying land-based targets, for damaging ships, and for completing other assignments such as finding or laying minefields, assessing harbour defences or making weather reports. Consider deducting renown for taking damage, losing crew members, failing to move towards a designated patrol area, for attacking too soon, or failing to attack when ordered.

Renown awards are useful in encouraging certain behaviour by the player. In a simulation, behaviours to be encouraged should include realistic behaviour. For instance, without any renown award for reaching a designated patrol area, players are more likely to choose where to take their sub. This is totally unrealistic. U-boats went where BdU told them to go. Some people object to the award of renown merely for following orders, without taking into account the fact that in real life people would be punished for not following orders and the game system has no form of punishment other than witholding renown.

There are a number of problems with the use of renown awards in a simulation, and with the specific implementation in SH3. The most obvious problem is that it does not directly model the system of rewards and punishments used in real life. However a more accurate rendering of punishments, and of some rewards, is unlikely to have the same motivating effect on a player as in real life. For instance, longer leave may be a good real-life reward, but it is unlikely to appeal to a player, who would rather be at sea. Transfer to a desk job, or spending time in the brig is unlikely to motivate a player to play the game. The system of rewards for the player must be different from real-world reward systems, because the player has different motivations, and because some of the behaviours to be encouraged are different (there is usually no need to motivate a real-world Kaleun to act "realistically", or to preserve his own life).

Problems with the implementation of the renown system in SH3 are mostly related to the concept of spending renown points on upgrades. For instance, spending renown on upgrades makes it harder to qualify for medals or promotions. This runs counter to what would happen in real life. Getting an engine upgrade or a better decoy launcher would not impair one's chances of getting a medal or being promoted. Therefore, qualification for a promotion should be a function of total renown ever accumulated not some current balance which has been reduced by spending on upgrades. Qualification for a medal should be based on either a large amount of renown being gained on a single patrol, or for a larger accumulation of renown over time. Obtaining an upgrade or carrying an advanced torpedo should not have the effect of reducing one's reputation. One way to handle this would be to have one's current renown level determine an allowance of upgrade points. These points could be awarded per patrol, or per month. Upgrade points could be spent, but the renown level would remain unchanged by this expenditure. Finally, certain upgrades would be made on a boat regardless of the renown of its commander. Other upgrades would be easier to come by at certain times. A commander with a good reputation might be first in line for a certain new feature, but every boat would eventually qualify. This argues for a reduction in renown costs of upgrades over time. Sometmes a commander would be able to request or negotiate a particular torpedo loadout, but sometimes they would just be assigned to him. The game should occaisionally randomly assign more advanced torpedoes to a boat. Perhaps the type and quantity of torpedos assigned could be dependent on the type of mission.

Another problem with the renown system in SH3 is that the costs and rewards are out of whack. It is far too easy to get higher medals, and too difficult to get promoted. One Zaunkoenig torpedo costs more renown than upgrading the radar or sonar system. No renown is awarded for sinking a ship by ramming. Getting to a patrol area close to base early in the war is rewarded the same as getting to a distant patrol area late in the war. Costs should be adjusted over time, and rewards should be better scaled to difficulty.


12) Modding

The reason that SH3 is still going strong is because of the mods that have improved realism, playability, and allowed customization to appeal to a wide variety of interests, from arcade gamers to serious simulationists. Design the next SH from the ground up to support modding. There are a number of constants in SH3 that are not exposed in the configuration files. Expose these. Provide a separate manual for modders that expains the algorithms in which the configuration parametrers are used. Don't just allow configuration of data values - provide a scripting langauge that would allow modders to program behaviours. Provide a ship editor, a GUI editor and a terrain/harbour edtor as well as a campaign editor. Provide ongoing support to modders.


13) Other Characteristics

The next Silent Hunter should be much more stable when released than the last two. The players' manual should be on the scale and quality of the GWX manual or better. A dynamic campaign is a must, not just individual missions. Greater attention should be paid to making units and technologies available at the correct date and location.

Consider one game engine which would run ships and boats from any of the major combatants in WWII. Then group campaigns, individual mssions and ship rosters from each theatre of operations into separate add-on packs. Players would purchase the engine and the theatre(s) of their choice.


14) Playable Escorts and Multiplayer Escorts vs U-boats.

One can always hope and dream.

[Task Force]

A cool featrue would be wear and tear on the subs. so that sub you have been running around the ocean takes damage after awhile reliability goes down, after a while it gets rusty and mucky, and parts break down. and the ability to have a sub go to drydock.

Snow up north, with ice that can build up on the boat.

interactive crew that dont just stand there all patrol.

water building up in the sub, not just a spray.

wolfpacks as said before.

surface ships

different factors that affect the ability of the subs to dive.

3d damage on the inside (and better on the outside.). hull buckeling, leaky hull seams.

More boat types.

ATO & PTO to please all. but the campaign being more real.

Not haveing aircraft always attacking you in the pto on release.

realistic weapon power.

realistic weather. (bigger waves like in real life)

maby water comeing in the conning tower hatchs in bad weather.

Better ai

(water puddleing up on deck/going down the sides of the sub in rain would be nice.)

A actual person attached to the camera, thats clothing changes with the weather, so you arnt wearing shorts and a t shirt in a N atlanic storm.

ect...

[LukeFF]

Couple of more things:

• In regards to the stability of the deck gun and the optics: the procedure was to fire the deck gun when the horizontal crosshair was level with the horizon. Provided the correct range was dialed into the weapon, the shell would hit the target. This is what I would like to see in SH5, rather than the seemingly random elevation/depression of the barrel we currently have.
• Like with sonar, radar should be blocked by land masses. At the same time, radar contact with land masses should be reported by the radar operator.
• AI radar should rotate like it does on the player's submarine and not be simply a continuous 360-degree arc of coverage.
• Unique sonar and radar displays for each particular piece of equipment. For instance, the GHG sonar display was different than that of the KDB display.
• Crewmen need to jump up and stop water and compressed air leaks, instead of just standing around like statues.
• Model random fuel leaks coming from the player's submarine. In reading the patrol reports of American subs, this was a constant problem, and it was probably no different with the Germans.
• As others have said, please, please, please, please, model the earth in its correct shape. Even a simple sphere will go a long way towards attaining more realism.
• Make the awarding of medals correspond to the correct historical dates. Certain awards, like the U-boat Front Badge, were not awarded until late in the war. Also, with the Germans, please make sure the player can't be awarded medals out of sequence (i.e., being awarded the Iron Cross 1st Class before the Iron Cross 2nd Class).
• Integrate radar and sonar better into the TDC firing procedures (radar isn't really all that important or historically practical for the Germans but is entirely crucial to the American side).

[TheDudTorpedo]

Originally Posted by Cue-Ball909

Lastly, all of these things need to be able to be turned on or off by the user. This will allow SH5 to cater to the hard-core simmers while also allowing armchair kaluens to play a light, fun sub game without getting killed on their first patrol.

As above. For me this is the most important aspect of any new game. Not all of us can, or have the desire to, play at hardcore realism settings. Be sure to cater for a diverse range of skills

And thanks for making such an enjoyable game too

[Snorkle]

Great thread and enough suggestions to last a lifetime!

My pet peeves:

1. Lack of friendly subs and interaction between ships, already covered in detail above.
2. A tighter dynamic campaign with BdU/COMSUBPAC that interacts to a much higher degree. As is, the linearity is depressing.
3. Aircraft... they just plain suck in all departments. Realistic behaviour, realistic range (Hurricane IICs in 1940 fercrissakes, WAY out of their range)... borrow competence from IL2! Aircraft carriers with CAP and ASW patrols is a given.
4. Crew with characters - Hermann is grumpy and swears a lot, Joe is a smartass with an endless supply of quips and jokes, Wilhelm breaks down and cries under pressure etc etc. Add random comments, diatribes and stories about girlfriends and dogs. This will keep me from running at high TC.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Where to start with this....
Ok first off full sub detail aka all compartments with crew in said compartments. If I walk past the kitchen and its before a meal I want to see the cook in there making food!!! If I go in the foreward torpedo room and some of the crew came off watch I want to see someone sacked out in their hamocks, ect. Second, complex engine and crew management, have the ablity to control both engines sepratly so the player can have on engine ahead flank and the other back full. As for complex crew mangament its so the player can micro-manage the crew so is there is a small problem with something the player can ask a crew member whats wrong, that and the crew members have emotions that can effect their combat effectiveness. Third, realistic comunication, sub to sub, sub to base, sub to ship. Example (sub to sub) you find a convoy and need some help, ask what subs are in the area and cordanate an attack with the other subs. Example (ship to sub, sub to ship) it early in the war and you find a lone merchant flying a neutral flag, you signal the ship to stop so it can be searched for contraband, some crew go on the ship and find nothing and you signal it to carry on. Or you find a ship flying an enemy flag and tell it to spot or be fired upon, so it stop and you take it as a prize, ect. Fourth, none of the AI ships being able to automaticly stop and start in the period of five seconds i.e. large ships going from 0kts to 20-30kts in five seconds!!! Fifith, no reown for sub upgrades, upgrades should be avalible when historicly avalible and still allow the player to pick the upgrade. Sixth, more human-like AI, no more super-human vision or gunnery. Example its a dark night with no moon and you manage to find a lightly escorted convoy the best way to sink a ship in a convoy is to get inside it then start to sink 'em. Seventh, better damage models for ships, subs and planes. Eight, POWs have the abiltly to capture the crews of enemy ships and aircraft. Ninth, Lifeboats. Tenth, realistic weather and weather reports. Elevinth, have to option the command surface craft before or after sub duty. Twelveth, the option to surender. Thirtheenth, Realisic malfuntion of parts.

[LukeFF]

Crew voices: simply put, they do not match the tactical situation that well right now, especially in SH4. Crewmen should not be in their "tense" crew animations and speaking in hushed tones just because they spotted a merchant ship some 10,000 yards off. Crewmen should be speaking in a lowered tone only when at silent running.

[LukeFF]

• Silent Running: this should have more implications than it does now (i.e., not being able to repair damage or reload torpedoes). Silent Running should mean things like bilge pumps are shut off, which in turn means the boat will slowly sink. It would then be up to the player whether he wants to risk detection by shutting off Silent Running or risk crushing the boat.
• Compressed Air: right now, this feature is almost a trivial matter, outside of when the player needs it to make an emergency surface maneuver. Rather than me explain how and why compressed air is so important and should be modeled in more detail, I'll just leave it up to the authors of the Fleet Submarine Manual:

[Oneshot/Onekill]

WOW. There is some serious pent up energy in this thread. Gotta love it.

Here are my thoughts for what there worth.

1. Convoy AI-Course changes from U-boat sightings. Improved torpedo avoidance(ZigZagging)

2. More merchant ships from the smaller and midrange tonnage classes.
More aircraft types.
3. Destructable land items.

4.Have the ability to use port or starboard engines independitly

5. The ability to use the Enigma machine to decode messages. To be able to manually tune the radio to different frequency's

6. SH4 damage model or better.

7. To have the option of picking up men in life boats, or in the water.

8. Insurgent mission's

9. Wolfpacks..Wolfpacks..Wolfpacks.

10. Realistic weather!

11. A merged ATO, PTO campaign.

12. All ships inculding submarines in the recognition books. Just like it was in SH1.

13. Complete acess to all compartments in all playable subs.

14. All U-boat equipment availability.

15. Alot fewer bugs during initial release!

16. Listen to the modders this time. Learn from your mistakes UBI.

[irish1958]

IMO, emphasis on bug free is not needed; what is needed is the ability of the modelers to fix it, and not rely on the good will (and economic sense) of UBI to fix it. As noted above, open the files and give us the tools, and we will fix the game.
The only reason SH3 is still viable is because the modelers could work with it, albeit in a very limited sense.
Let this be the last Silent Hunter sim, so release the SDK, open the files, release modeling tools so these ideas could be implemented. The developers just cannot spend the time and money to do it right; let us do it.
If needed, release the game on one DVD, and have a second DVD with the tools, SDK, and information to fix and add to the sim. Then all the ideas above could be implimented, not just the cheap and easy ones.

[Hitman]

1.- EASY MODDABLE so we can tweak to death and customize the game to our likings
2.- DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN
3.- WOLFPACKS
4.- DETAILED MECHANICS of tools and instruments (TDC, periscopes...)