Anyone kill a friendly? I almost did... - Page 3

seafarer · 06-19-08, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank0001

I was so glad! And I'm sure the captain and his crew was too

I like that, although I'm guessing they were less then pleased once your boat was gone out of sight, and they had to then clean the poop out of their pants!

Huncowboy · 03-26-09, 10:50 AM

I got to this thread in my search about renown and sinking unlit ships.

I was off the east coast of GB and saw an unlit medium cargo. Sweeeet. It is moving 10kts and I am in a good position. I cut ahead and fire two torps and they both hit. While it is going down it turns on its search lights and suddenly I see it is Norwegian. This is still pre invasion October 1939.

So there goes the renown for my patrol. This was the 3rd ship going down on this patrol and I eded up with -58 renown. I will never get a type VII at this rate. How is this my fault? Aren't they supposed to lit themself if neutral? I want my renown for it. Arghhh... no medals either after this one.

Sailor Steve · 03-26-09, 11:04 AM

Hi, Huncowboy, and if I didn't catch you before, WELCOME ABOARD!

One of the things you can do is go into the Data/Cfg/Basic folder. Right at the top is the renown rewarded for different situations. I changed my neutrals to '0', on the grounds that very few, if any, kaleuns were punished for sinking neutral ships, especially in convoys. You can actually make it a positive, but I don't think I should be actively awarded for sinking them either, so '0' suits me fine.

Huncowboy · 03-26-09, 11:25 AM

Steve,

Good idea. Thanks I will try that. It is realistic too IMHO. They were not supposed to be unlit, and guess if they were coming from the GB they were helping GB's war effort.... can you say "rationalization"?

Sailor Steve · 03-26-09, 11:38 AM

:rotfl:

Yes I can, and very eloquently. Something else I did recently was change my 'Friendly' sinking value from '-10' to '-1'. In my ship names research I've come across several cases of u-boats sinking friendly ship, and the captain being let go with a mild reprimand, because in every case the merchant was either disguised as Allied or where he wasn't supposed to be.

I've played tabletop wargames for more than thirty years now, and I've observed that 90% of all gamers just want an advantage or an excuse, and will give you all kinds of reasons why some thing or the other was 'historical'. For that reason I'm usually leary of talking about renown reduction, because it might give some an excuse to just go sink everything. On the other hand there have been many discussions about the realism of the renown system itself. Not aimed at you, but just my general experience.

Take that as you wish, and have fun putting down the Tommies.

Etienne · 03-26-09, 12:37 PM

Historically speaking, wasn't there an order issued at some point that anything travelling in a convoy was fair game?

Or am I misremembering again?

mookiemookie · 03-26-09, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienne

Historically speaking, wasn't there an order issued at some point that anything travelling in a convoy was fair game?

Or am I misremembering again?

Ships of neutral nations traveling in convoy were not in and of themselves considered fair game.

However, ships of neutral nations that were sailing in convoys escorted by ships of belligerent nations were violating neutrality laws. They would have been considered fair game.

andym · 03-26-09, 01:27 PM

Yes,last night i came upon a US vessel,so went along side to have a closer look and the schwein opened fire on me!Put a bloody great hole in my Starboard saddle tank!So i sank him!

goggles · 03-27-09, 01:30 AM

never sank a friendly

killed a few neutrals...including a neutral ocean liner (lusitania anyone?)

i always seem to accidently sink american ships before dec 1941

american flag is hard to distinguish from a distance all the stars and bars blur toghter into a red/whit/blueish mess

Otto Heinzmeir · 03-27-09, 01:43 AM

I sank the German trawler that is just ahead of you when you leave Wilhelmshaven on purpose once. I just started a game to see if I installed the waterstream mod ok and was bored so I just lined it up and fired. As soon as the torp hit sirens went off. It was hilarious.

FIREWALL · 03-27-09, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish1958

John Wayne: "Sink them all and let the Lord sort it out."

Or ... When in doubt... SHOOT

By no1topgun at 2009-03-27

rubenandthejets · 03-27-09, 05:44 AM

I'm playing OM, I don't run into many neutrals. I was sinking Swedish ships 200 miles off Kiel and getting pats on the back for it. I sank a US ship off Portugal last night (Sept 1940), a bunch of Portugese fishing boats and got an Iron Cross. I came close to whacking a few friendlies off Norway in April '40 but as my torps were utter pieces of poop I was spared the indignity of fronting Uncle Karl and explaining. Made up for it with a 110% ID'd BRITISH troop transport shortly afterwards, closed to 500 yards and shelled it.

Oneshot/Onekill · 03-27-09, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

:rotfl:

Yes I can, and very eloquently. Something else I did recently was change my 'Friendly' sinking value from '-10' to '-1'. In my ship names research I've come across several cases of u-boats sinking friendly ship, and the captain being let go with a mild reprimand, because in every case the merchant was either disguised as Allied or where he wasn't supposed to be.

I've played tabletop wargames for more than thirty years now, and I've observed that 90% of all gamers just want an advantage or an excuse, and will give you all kinds of reasons why some thing or the other was 'historical'. For that reason I'm usually leary of talking about renown reduction, because it might give some an excuse to just go sink everything. On the other hand there have been many discussions about the realism of the renown system itself. Not aimed at you, but just my general experience.

Take that as you wish, and have fun putting down the Tommies.

I have to agree with you on this Sailor Steve, except I change my neutral value to a 1 only on the basis that I shoot neutrals if they are escorted in convoy by countries i'm at war with. Or that are blatantly supporting enemy operations such as neutrals with visible war materials on board that belong to a country I am at war with, or troop ships that are supporting enemy actions. I try to be as judicial as possible, just as you stated, it easliy becomes nothing more than a turkey shoot.

I like that you turn your friendly ration down also, I was thinking I might drop it to a -2 or -3 myself.

BasilY · 04-01-09, 03:36 PM

I almost sunk the Scharnhorst during the Norwegian Campaign. Fire a spread of 4 torpedoes at 2 fast moving ships. hit the leading ship with 2 eels. She was stopped. When I move closer to administer a coup-de-grace, I realize what a big mistake I made.

On a un-related note, I don't see any reason to change the renown for neutral/friendly ship sinkings. Why?

Laughing Swordfish · 04-01-09, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slateford-5

By far the two most tricky flags to tell apart at night: Romania and France.

If you even suspect it might be French, blow it out of the water. Better to be safe than sorry. And no Brit has ever been sorry about sinking frenchies!

LS

03-26-09, 11:04 AM	#33
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Hi, Huncowboy, and if I didn't catch you before, WELCOME ABOARD! One of the things you can do is go into the Data/Cfg/Basic folder. Right at the top is the renown rewarded for different situations. I changed my neutrals to '0', on the grounds that very few, if any, kaleuns were punished for sinking neutral ships, especially in convoys. You can actually make it a positive, but I don't think I should be actively awarded for sinking them either, so '0' suits me fine. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-26-09, 11:38 AM	#35
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	:rotfl: Yes I can, and very eloquently. Something else I did recently was change my 'Friendly' sinking value from '-10' to '-1'. In my ship names research I've come across several cases of u-boats sinking friendly ship, and the captain being let go with a mild reprimand, because in every case the merchant was either disguised as Allied or where he wasn't supposed to be. I've played tabletop wargames for more than thirty years now, and I've observed that 90% of all gamers just want an advantage or an excuse, and will give you all kinds of reasons why some thing or the other was 'historical'. For that reason I'm usually leary of talking about renown reduction, because it might give some an excuse to just go sink everything. On the other hand there have been many discussions about the realism of the renown system itself. Not aimed at you, but just my general experience. Take that as you wish, and have fun putting down the Tommies. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-26-09, 01:27 PM	#38
andym Weps Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 365 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 2	Yes,last night i came upon a US vessel,so went along side to have a closer look and the schwein opened fire on me!Put a bloody great hole in my Starboard saddle tank!So i sank him! __________________ GWX 3.0 GOLD,SH3 Commander.

03-27-09, 01:30 AM	#39
goggles Loader Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Prince George BC, Canada Posts: 83 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	never sank a friendly killed a few neutrals...including a neutral ocean liner (lusitania anyone?) i always seem to accidently sink american ships before dec 1941 american flag is hard to distinguish from a distance all the stars and bars blur toghter into a red/whit/blueish mess __________________ Praise be to the Uboat Gods!

03-27-09, 01:43 AM	#40
Otto Heinzmeir Weps Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Wilhelmshaven Local Pub Posts: 361 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I sank the German trawler that is just ahead of you when you leave Wilhelmshaven on purpose once. I just started a game to see if I installed the waterstream mod ok and was bored so I just lined it up and fired. As soon as the torp hit sirens went off. It was hilarious. __________________ NYGM3.2 + Tonnage War Minefield________IABLShipsRezonedFinal Hitman Optics & Compass_______________Thomsen's Sound Mod v3 100% Realism DID + No God's Eye View____SH3 Commander Crew Rotation

03-26-09, 10:50 AM	#32
Huncowboy Watch Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 30 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I got to this thread in my search about renown and sinking unlit ships. I was off the east coast of GB and saw an unlit medium cargo. Sweeeet. It is moving 10kts and I am in a good position. I cut ahead and fire two torps and they both hit. While it is going down it turns on its search lights and suddenly I see it is Norwegian. This is still pre invasion October 1939. So there goes the renown for my patrol. This was the 3rd ship going down on this patrol and I eded up with -58 renown. I will never get a type VII at this rate. How is this my fault? Aren't they supposed to lit themself if neutral? I want my renown for it. Arghhh... no medals either after this one.

03-26-09, 11:25 AM	#34
Huncowboy Watch Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 30 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Steve, Good idea. Thanks I will try that. It is realistic too IMHO. They were not supposed to be unlit, and guess if they were coming from the GB they were helping GB's war effort.... can you say "rationalization"?

03-26-09, 12:37 PM	#36
Etienne Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 695 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Historically speaking, wasn't there an order issued at some point that anything travelling in a convoy was fair game? Or am I misremembering again?

03-27-09, 05:44 AM	#42
rubenandthejets 中国水兵 Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 279 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	I'm playing OM, I don't run into many neutrals. I was sinking Swedish ships 200 miles off Kiel and getting pats on the back for it. I sank a US ship off Portugal last night (Sept 1940), a bunch of Portugese fishing boats and got an Iron Cross. I came close to whacking a few friendlies off Norway in April '40 but as my torps were utter pieces of poop I was spared the indignity of fronting Uncle Karl and explaining. Made up for it with a 110% ID'd BRITISH troop transport shortly afterwards, closed to 500 yards and shelled it. __________________ HMAS Sydney III "Thorough and Ready"

04-01-09, 03:36 PM	#44
BasilY Weps Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 359 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I almost sunk the Scharnhorst during the Norwegian Campaign. Fire a spread of 4 torpedoes at 2 fast moving ships. hit the leading ship with 2 eels. She was stopped. When I move closer to administer a coup-de-grace, I realize what a big mistake I made. On a un-related note, I don't see any reason to change the renown for neutral/friendly ship sinkings. Why?